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If P0420 is present then:
Topic Started: Apr 4 2012, 08:44 PM (5,279 Views)
dayle1960
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Fastest Hampster EVER

ARGH!!!!! :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

I will now slink back into my cave and reread the wisdom of mwebb. Obviously the elixor that snake oil salesman was peddling on his STUPID youtube feed was exactly what I hoped it wouldn't be, :shit :shit :shit :shit

Yep, on the way to work the stupid CEL pop its ugly self on and I get disgruntled.

Now here is a question for mwebb: What do you think cause my cat to die? Was is dogschnit oil coating my cat's innards, or has the catalyst burned up?

I know on another post mwebb stated that dogschnit oil turns to ash after it is burned and coats the inside of the cat. I guess that is what has happened.

From this experience I can state that you will not get any good results from throwing lacquer thinner in your gasoline tank in order to correct a P0420.

Thanks for everyones input. Maybe I'll find a way to scrape together a couple of bucks and test a CARB cat or else I'll do the cheapo dayle1960 thing and plug the downstream O2 bung and keep on trucking.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

dayle1960
Apr 18 2012, 06:49 PM
I know on another post mwebb stated that dogschnit oil turns to ash after it is burned and coats the inside of the cat. I guess that is what has happened.
Looking through Wikipedia at Other Additives, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_oil
"Another trend of today represent midSAP (sulfated ash <0,8 wt.-%) and lowSAP (sulfated ash <0,5 wt.-%) engine oil (see specifications: MB 229.xx, MB 22x.x1, Renault RN 0720, FORD WSS-M2C934-A). The ACEA specifications C1 to C4 reflect the midSAP and lowSAP needs of automotive OEMs. Reason for this is that the small loss of the oil during engine life — that ends burned, exhaust valve stem cleanliness is improved and much less gypsum ends up plugging the catalyst and/or particulate filter. This improves emissions as the emission regulating system has longer service life then. It is much more remarkable in a trailer truck which can easily make 200000 to 400000 km every year."

www.mobiloil.com/Car_Care/AskMobil/Low_Ash_Oil_Collection Q&A, that there are additives that leave an ash; "There are certain additives used in engine oils that, when they leak past the piston rings and get into the combustion side of the engine, can produce ash when burned. This ash can cause filter plugging in certain types of engines that contain particulate filters. This is not an issue for most engines unless you have a diesel particulate filter."

What mwebb may be referring to is:

EP additives, like zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) additives and sulfonates, preferably calcium sulfonates, are available to consumers for additional protection under extreme-pressure conditions or in heavy duty performance situations. Calcium sulfonates additives are also added to protect motor oil from oxidative breakdown and to prevent the formation of sludge and varnish deposits. Both were the main basis of additive packages used by lubricant manufacturers up until 1990s when the need for ashless addtitives arose. Main advantage was very low price and wide availability (sulfonates were originally waste byproducts). Currently there are ashless oil lubricants without these additives, which can only fulfill the qualities of the previous generation with more expensive basestock and more expensive organic or organometallic additive compounds. Some new oils are not formulated to provide the level of protection of previous generations to save manufacturing costs. Lately API specifications reflect that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_oil
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Deleted User
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:gp

mwebb is camping out in Bad Bent's basement. :news

Took a while to digest all that BB.

"Dogshnit" is a rather un-technical term. :'(

The results of improper oil service intervals and the use of "dogshnit oil" can be seen on a daily basis in Geo Glenn's garage. Tours are available from 9 am to 5 pm daily, weekends and holidays by appointment, or just stop by anytime. :cheers

VW 504.00/507.00 from the VW Dealer also has a C3 rating on the bottle.
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mwebb
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FOG

one of the problems with the dogshnit oils is the low quality base stock , the rest of the problems are the low quality additives that are there to attempt to fix the problems of the low quality base stocks

and

Mobil One fibs , just like all the rest of the oil sellers the info in wikipedia is incomplete and watered down for the masses.
a good example is royal purple , whose oils meet zero ACEA specifications it is all marketing hype .

much of the "synthetic oil" products are not good oils , read the backs of the bottles , demand the correct ACEA specifications
Demand at a minimum
(for geo metros )
DEXOS1 specification
i use
the better ACEA specification oils in my own cars , i never use the dogsnit oils in even my lawnmower

not all of the mobil one products meet DEXOS1 and only Mobil 1 0w40 meets
ACEA A3 B3- A3 B4 and the VW 502 505 specification
there is no mobil one product that i am aware of that meets
VW 504 507

the KISS version
there is no credible reason to use dogshnit oils , they cost more to use and they are worse for your engine than
ACEA A3 B3 A3 B4 oils

and
the dogshnit oils will kill your cat deader than dog poop , some dogshnit oils will kill it sooner
which ones , changes from time to time and does not matter because
you should not use dogshnit oils anyway

Keep It Simple Stupid KISS
just do not use dogshnit oil
Edited by mwebb, Apr 19 2012, 12:00 AM.
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iBLKBRY
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mwebb
Apr 13 2012, 11:16 PM
consider this as well ....
Posted Image

this shows 2 Mode6 captures stacked on one screen , labelled as FREDs gas and Mobil gas , note the Long term fuel trim and the Mode 6 TID $01 test results
this cat is "new" aftermarket and a solid pass , but compare the difference that is caused by change in fuel alone
1.000 is the max allowed , FREDS gas Mode 6 test result for the cat .250
Mobil gas Test result .172
Fail is 1.000 for a max allowed , lower is better ,

this shows a 7.8% difference (delta) in the test results of the cat test Just by switching to better , not best quality fuel .

so what ? who cares ? what can you say ....

if your cat tests at 1.05 with FREDs gas , a fail , you may pass with a 1.05 - .078 = .972
max allowed is 1.00

sometimes a marginal cat can be made to pass
just buy using the correct fuel

note the long term fuel trim value , using different fuels , you can see a FE gain of about 1.6% ...
not huge
but at $4 per gallon that is about 6 cents a gallon savings

this shows the need to keep accurate record s to see which fuel your car prefers , in this case
the lesser quality fuel , shows better fuel economy .....

does it pay to use dogshnit oil ???
think about the garbage additives in the crap oil , that boil out of the oil and get picked up by the PCV
to be burned , then
deposited on your cat converter .... do you think that prolongs the life of your cat converter ?
shake your head no .
^o)
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iBLKBRY
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iBLKBRY
Apr 19 2012, 05:34 AM
mwebb
Apr 13 2012, 11:16 PM
consider this as well ....
Posted Image

this shows 2 Mode6 captures stacked on one screen , labelled as FREDs gas and Mobil gas , note the Long term fuel trim and the Mode 6 TID $01 test results
this cat is "new" aftermarket and a solid pass , but compare the difference that is caused by change in fuel alone
1.000 is the max allowed , FREDS gas Mode 6 test result for the cat .250
Mobil gas Test result .172
Fail is 1.000 for a max allowed , lower is better ,

this shows a 7.8% difference (delta) in the test results of the cat test Just by switching to better , not best quality fuel .

so what ? who cares ? what can you say ....

if your cat tests at 1.05 with FREDs gas , a fail , you may pass with a 1.05 - .078 = .972
max allowed is 1.00

sometimes a marginal cat can be made to pass
just buy using the correct fuel

note the long term fuel trim value , using different fuels , you can see a FE gain of about 1.6% ...
not huge
but at $4 per gallon that is about 6 cents a gallon savings

this shows the need to keep accurate record s to see which fuel your car prefers , in this case
the lesser quality fuel , shows better fuel economy .....

does it pay to use dogshnit oil ???
think about the garbage additives in the crap oil , that boil out of the oil and get picked up by the PCV
to be burned , then
deposited on your cat converter .... do you think that prolongs the life of your cat converter ?
shake your head no .
^o)
:scared Ooops...I meant no.
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Deleted User
Deleted User

In my mind I knew, but did not say.

It is now confirmed.

mwebb uses high quality engine oil in his lawn mower. :thumb

:wub:
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dayle1960
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Fastest Hampster EVER

mwebb
Apr 18 2012, 11:57 PM

the KISS version
there is no credible reason to use dogshnit oils , they cost more to use and they are worse for your engine than
ACEA A3 B3 A3 B4 oils

mwebb, you made this statement. I want to know how dogshnit oil is more expensive to use than "alphebet" oil?

The shelf price is cheaper for dogshnit oil, so all I can deduce is that the maintenance is cheaper by not having to repair damaged bits and pieces of your engine and exhaust systems.
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mwebb
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FOG

dayle1960
Apr 19 2012, 06:43 PM
mwebb
Apr 18 2012, 11:57 PM

the KISS version
there is no credible reason to use dogshnit oils , they cost more to use and they are worse for your engine than
ACEA A3 B3 A3 B4 oils

mwebb, you made this statement. I want to know how dogshnit oil is more expensive to use than "alphebet" oil?

The shelf price is cheaper for dogshnit oil, so all I can deduce is that the maintenance is cheaper by not having to repair damaged bits and pieces of your engine and exhaust systems.
simple
dogshnit oils cost more than 50% of the correct oils ...the ACEA rated oils
and
the service interval for the dogshnit oils is pretty universally accepted as
3k miles

and for the correct ACEA A3 B3 A3 B4 oils the service intervals are 6k miles
at a bare minimum

so
total cost for oils if using dogshnit oil exceeds the price of the "alphabet " oils every 6k miles

if purchased judiciously on sale from auto joke or un advanced auto
the filter is free for the regular overtaxed and underpaid mortal serfs .
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cody
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[ *  * ]
Well.... since I am the King of Kings and immortal and pay no taxes to Caesar.... the sonsofbitches made me pay for the damn filter !!!!
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iBLKBRY
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Geo Glenn
Apr 19 2012, 11:11 AM
In my mind I knew, but did not say.

It is now confirmed.

mwebb uses high quality engine oil in his lawn mower. :thumb

:wub:
Hey, I use fully synthetic Valvoline in mine! Darn thing ought to run forever.
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dragnfly
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I had the service engine light come on , checked with my code reader and p0420 code showed up. I changed the pcv and cleaned out the y hose. After about 60 miles of driving the service engine light has gone out and all looks good. Glad it wasn't the cat. converter.
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Johnny Mullet
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Fear the Mullet

I just read all of this. To correct your code, replace the cat. To prevent it in the future, don't use dogschnit parts or oil :beer
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iBLKBRY
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Every once in a while, I get the P0420. I just reset it and drive on. Stupid nuisance. I use 76 gas, or another quality station. Oh well, my gas mileage keeps improving with my driving technique. Getting 52mpgs with a straight-up un-modded '96. Nothing fancy, just well maintained.
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Woodie
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dragnfly
Apr 25 2012, 06:54 PM
I had the service engine light come on , checked with my code reader and p0420 code showed up. I changed the pcv and cleaned out the y hose. After about 60 miles of driving the service engine light has gone out and all looks good. Glad it wasn't the cat. converter.
That was a complete co-incidence, PCV has nothing to do with a 0420. Your cat is borderline and depending upon weather and driving conditions, it will continue to go on and off until it finally fails completely. Same for iBLKBRY, going to come on to stay soon.
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