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94 Geo metro rough ignition,rough idle,sputter,etc; need to figure cause(s), how to repair
Topic Started: Apr 17 2012, 06:40 PM (7,710 Views)
gmz760
New Member
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the whole mess started after we tightened the alternator belt. we started her up, and it was not happy. it felt totally bogged down..we figured out tthe corrent tension for the belt, but it was all downhill after that. the car wldnt start unless we floored the gas pedal, and even then, it seemed to struggling to stay on. it was shaking BAD, unless we gassed it slightly.that wld go on up n dwn until shutoff. we took her out for a test drive, and thank God there wasnt a lot of traffic,cuz every time wed go from a full stop, the car wld hesitate to accelerate, and wld go up n down in power whn keepin the gas pedal dwn and steady. we called in another friend who checked the timing (and it was dead on), and he ultimately raised the ignition idle, and the car was back to drivable,albeit revved up and high idle. it went fine for the rest of the day, but the next afternoon, it went right back to bein possessed.it was as if wed done NOTHING at all the previous day.every problem was back,right dwn to the alternator belt squeeking. what is going on. please help. FYI, all within the past 8 months, the car has gotten a new fuel filter,air filter, water pump,plugs(which need to b replaced agn),cables, radiator, alternator belt. plus weve discovered some small coolant leaks around the engine, and theres a pretty severe water leak frm one of the "pipes"(its not flexible like a hose.) to the rear and somewhat below where the air filter is. also has some oil leaks.
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crankcase


Hi gmz760,

Welcome to the forum :coffee

I'd start with the basics since it ran fine before the alternator servicing.

Make sure the plug wires are on tight. Could they have gotten crossed?
Don't forget to check the coil wire at both ends to be sure it's on good.
There is a thread around here somewhere on checking for arching plug wires,
but you can also try running it in the dark with the hood up and and look for sparks.

For the squeal, try cleaning the alternator pully with solvent, and maybe do a little light sanding on it.
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gmz760
New Member
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i appreciate the feedback. the day we (and by 'we' , i mean my 2 buddies wth no help from me whatsoever) got the car running, my buddy checked the plugs and the coil, and they both need to be changed, they were not the cause,which he determined by havin me start the car and he undid one plug at a time and everything was as it should have been. on a different note,i did some surfin arnd on autozone website "troubleshooting" feature, and came up wth sum possible answers.i looked up "rough idle" and it suggested checkin the EGR valve, and for "stalling" it also said the EGR valve, as well as the Idle Air Control Valve, and the Mass Air Flow Sensor, all of which are things that kept coming up on my numerous searches for answers online..can anybody tell me how likely it is going to be these things, and if so, how much for these parts and are they pretty simple fixes...id like to knw what to expect...thanks!
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xxcombatcarlxx
Geo Noobie
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I had a problem like that with my 94 back in November Tofuball was able to lead me to the problem. http://geometroforum.com/single/?p=577483&t=4584088

What was happening with mine was the timing gear was moving around from the bolt being loose and retarding the timing. So when I advanced the timing all the way it was reading like 20 some degrees over with the timing light cause the gear wasn't actually on the crankshaft in the right spot. So in reality the timing was really low causing the car to bog down and not start. Here's what my Timing Gear and Woodruff Key looked like after the bolt holding it on came loose and I kept driving it. http://geometroforum.com/single/?p=582958&t=4597040

Hope this helps

I guess even if it isn't the problem it can help you figure out what isn't wrong and rule a few things out.

Ps I live for these threads cause its the only real problem I know about with these cars :P
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crankcase


Seems unlikely that one of the parts on the Zones site would jsut happen to quit workign when you did the alternator. Much more likely that something happened when the alternator was serviced.

Pulling a plug wire should make it run rough. If he did not get one back on properly it could just be making intermittent contact, thus causing the intermittent problem. Pulling the coil wire should kill the motor.

The EGR passages are probably stoped up if the car has not had regular service in a while. Push the plunger in by hand, that should almost stall out the car if all is well. If it has no effect, cleaning out the passage wouldn't hurt.

These cars have a problem with burned exhaust valves. You should probably do a compression check for good measure to check for that problem, but it seems odd that would happen right when you do the alternator service.

All was well, you do the alternator, and now you have some new problem. That strongly indicates something got bumped ect. If it were me, I would hold off on spending money on the things you mention and try more testing. I'm not a professional, I 've just worked on a few Metros and we have several in the family.

I'm sure some other additional opinions and ideas will be posted shortly.
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gmz760
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thats just it though, the alternator was never actually "serviced"...all we did was adjust the alternator belt, and then opted to buy a new one for it. it was after adjusting it the first time that the problems started so we guessed it needed a new one. but it didnt help. could something have been screwed up when we adjusted/replaced the alt belt? or is it possible this is all just some sick and twisted coincidence?
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Woodie
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gmz760
Apr 18 2012, 03:19 AM
it was after adjusting it the first time that the problems started so we guessed it needed a new one. but it didnt help. could something have been screwed up when we adjusted/replaced the alt belt? or is it possible this is all just some sick and twisted coincidence?
Unlikely, but possible. Far more likely you bumped something when you were in there messing about. Vacuum line or wiring connector. Definitely renew the ground connection on the back of the intake manifold DIRECTLY ABOVE THE ALTERNATOR.


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gmz760
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i agree with u wholeheartedly. the onlly thing we cant figure out is WHAT got screwed up when we tightened/replaced the alternator belt. what is in the immediate proximity that could of been damaged or moved or disconnected? all my friend did was loosen the bolts, used a long socket wrench for leverage, got it to where we needed, and tightened the bolts again. ..
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Was the air cleaner removed? IAT sensor connection or "silencer" (little black can) loose? MAP sensor is on the firewall just above the Alt.

Here is the ground bolt location:
Posted Image
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crankcase


Check the vacuum lines closely, listen for sucking sounds and investigate. Is your check engine light on?
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gmz760
New Member
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yeah the check engine light has been on for awhile now, and I mentioned there being a water leak and some small coolant leaks in different areas. also my friend says that we should change the o ring on the water pump, since thats leaking. itd been leakin for awhile before we caught it, and the car had run fine. well as fine as it could considering how behind we got wth the maintenance. but ima get the areas around the alternator checked that u mentioned above. im prayin tht its one of those areas cuz i just looked up the price of an EGR valve, n i seriously cannot afford it, much less if its more than that causing the problem.
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mwebb
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FOG

Posted Image

the EGR valves do not fail but the back pressure transducers do
if you have clogged EGR passages in the intake , you may induce misfire when EGR is "active"

to see if misfire is related to clogged passages , disconnect back pressure transducer at Q and
drive the car

if symptoms do not change
the misfire is not related to EGR

no matter what
do not buy a new EGR valve as the EGR valve is not the cause
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gmz760
New Member
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OKAY THIS IS KIND OF OFF TOPIC, BUT WHAT CAN DO TO KEEP AIR FROM GETTING SUCKED INTO WHERE THE TRANSMISSION DIPSTICK WOULD GO? IVE LOOKED EVERYWHERE AND NO PLACE CARRIES THEM SHORT OF THE DEALER, WHOS PARTS DEPT IS CLOSED. SOME PLACES CARRIED "UNIVERSAL" DIPSTICKS, BUT NOT THE RIGHT ONE FOR THIS CAR. IM GONNA HAVE TO GO THRU THE DEALER, BUT WITHOUT KNOWING HOW MUCH IT COSTS, IM LOOKING FOR A TEMP FIX UNTIL I CAN PURCHASE THE DANG THING.
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mwebb
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FOG

think
Cork
or something similar

or
a plastic cap
or
a finger cut from a rubber glove

or choice c
use your imagination
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gmz760
New Member
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what size o ring do i need for the pipe that the water pump gets hooked up to,,,? no place has a specific name or size when i ask them,,,i knw the easiest way wld be to take the old one in n compare, but i figured, hell, i might as well as these guys first.
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