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Mushroom Cloud from the Tailpipe; 92 Metro LSi vert smoking
Topic Started: Apr 18 2012, 06:51 PM (1,551 Views)
cuteANDbrainy
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:smackface Have wanted to do this for three days now!

Okay, car details....
92 Geo Metro LSi convertible
1.0 Litre
3 cyl
77,084 miles

History....
Car is from Florida one owner until 2011
Unknown reason for car to sit from 2006 to 2011
Car driven 500 miles before I bought it two weeks ago, 70 miles since then

On the day we bought the car, it seemed fine until I hit the interstate at 55 mph. WHITE smoke came out the tailpipe, then disappeared and didn't repeat but twice more (about 8 miles or so between puffs). Got home, saw oil dripping and transmission fluid. Oil all over the throttle body and inside the airbox, under the air filter. Belts also squeaking like dying cats. Not losing power, but not alot of pickup either. Around town there is no smoke.... only at open highway speeds.

Took car to local mechanic. They came back with transmission front seal is leaking, needs tuneup, needs ac conversion kit, new rear brakes, and tune-up. Stated that the head gasket and cylinders were good and that he was unsure where the oil was coming from, but suspected maybe valve seals, but to drive it a few more days and see if it got better.

Took car to another mechanic that replaced the tranny seals... all good, no leaks. He realized that the airbox wasn't even seated on the top of the throttle body correctly, so he replaced gasket there and tightened it down right. No more oil all over throttle. Installed new belts, new rotor button, new distributor cap, new plugs and new wires. Also, corrected some bad fan wiring I didn't know was wrong. Car cranked up and sounded GREAT! No little putt-putt go cart noises, just straight purr! Oil was holding on the stick at the same place and barely any under the car, so all agreed it had probably just been spewing from under air box and getting sucked into exhaust that way. Left there thinking everything was gonna be fine.... not! :banghead

On the way home, hit 55mph, HUGE mushroom cloud. It didn't disappear that time either. Seems like that with the new found power and tune-up, whatever was causing the oil burn got worse. There was little black specs of "ick" all over my white bumper and the windshield of my friend's SUV that was following me. :( From what I read, it's soot and water vapor droplets....yes? It doesn't drip like actual oil. Weird thing, too, it passed emissions on March 12. ??

Took it straight home and parked it. Talked to PepBoys mechanic, he states not to bother with rebuild because it will cost $2000, twice what I paid for the car. His recommendation....part the car out! Not what I wanted to hear. Asked another "older" mechanic, he said that the car is in great shape otherwise and would be worth redoing the engine just because of the oddity and age of that particular car. Neither had any explanation for the oil other than the head gaskets and cylinders must be bad! I asked about just doing a gasket and seal replacement through the engine since it sat so long, but they told me that if I drove it with smoke, I bent a valve rod for sure and there was no fixing that but replacement.

I have read threads on here until I really have more questions than answers now. I am not a mechanic, but I have an understanding of how an engine is supposed to function, what the parts are called, and how to use tools. I can sure follow a manual or video too. Problem is.... I don't know where to start.

There are so many suggestions on here from Marvel Mystery Oil to engine rebuild. I can't spend a ton of money chasing a bulls-eye. I also have no local mechanic that I trust to give me good advice or supervise my work. So, I am turning to my fellow Geo enthusiasts for help.

I called the first mechanic back and asked about compression check and they said they did one and the numbers were "fine" and they thought it really was the valve seals gone and allowing oil blow through.

So, what do I do? Everyone says if I drive it smoking I might as well scrape the engine because I will tear it up.... But on here I see that people say run it through 3 or 4 tanks of gas. At 40 mpg that's a long ways to drive it tore up.... ??

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I love the little thing... spent money on inside pieces and has new top and everything. I just can't "part her out" so easily....



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You have Geo Metro Oil Farting Disease.

First, clean the rubber tube from the valve cover to the PCV valve. Clean or replace the PCV valve.

Marvel Mystery Oil. Yes. About 8-12 ounces in a fresh oil change.

Oil.

Nothing but the best. 3,000 mile change interval.

Try one of these flavors...

No additional additives required. I'm putting the VW 504.00/507.00 flavor in all my fresh engine overhauls. 3,000 miles before intial oil change. Never uses a drop.

http://geometroforum.com/topic/4141719/

For additional GeoMedicinal Purposes, try some of this in your fuel...

http://geometroforum.com/topic/4551987/

Hopefully, that works. If not, click on the link below . . . ;)
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Mikemetro
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Step one. Replace the pcv valve

Never mind. GeoGlenn covered it all while I was getting a beer
Edited by Mikemetro, Apr 18 2012, 07:11 PM.
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dayle1960
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Fastest Hampster EVER

You might have a plugged pcv valve and Y-tube. The y-tube runs from the rear of the valve cover to the air cleaner. You can check it easily by taking off the air cleaner and pulling the y-tube off of the valve cover and pcv valve. It should take about ten minutes. Be careful because if the y-tube is full of oil it will spill on your cloths if you do not hold it correctly.

It is a simple and easy check, won't cost you anything, and if it is clogged, it is easy to pour the oil out of it and reinstall.

With the amount of oil you are claiming on the underside of your metro, you need to crawl underneath it and clean it.. Then drive your metro around and you should be able to tell from where the oil is coming from. If I had to guess, you will find a leak between the engine and the transmission. Which means the rear main crank seal has given up the ghost. That is a booger of a seal to replace, it entail either dropping the engine or the tranny. Right now your best bet is to clean the underside of the car and find where the oil is coming from.

Crap, I guess I was five minutes late to the party. Curse you GG. Now you're hijacking my posting times!!!
Edited by dayle1960, Apr 18 2012, 07:13 PM.
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cuteANDbrainy
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Okay... well, I guess I am on the right track some...

I bought a PCV valve yesterday and a new seal for the EGR valve. Autozone tech also suggested carb cleaner for the EGR. He said, don't replace it at $109, clean and reseal first. Yes?
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cuteANDbrainy
Apr 18 2012, 07:20 PM
Okay... well, I guess I am on the right track some...

I bought a PCV valve yesterday and a new seal for the EGR valve. Autozone tech also suggested carb cleaner for the EGR. He said, don't replace it at $109, clean and reseal first. Yes?
You are on the right track. :thumb

However, once upon a time, my 1990 Geo Metro had oil farting disease. It does not have an EGR valve. Not saying that it doesn't need to be cleaned, but it has nothing to do with the smoke screen.

Somewhere down the line, Bad Bent or Bogs will get on here and post a bunch of bookmarked links about the EGR valve and how to clean the passages.

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cuteANDbrainy
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Question... shops are all saying not to drive it at all until it's towed and fixed. That I will do serious damage to the motor if it's got oil in it. On the other hand, how do I know if replacing the PCV valve has worked or not? Its only got a drip the size of a silver dollar in 24 hours and puffing at high speeds, but I don't want to lock the engine up.
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cuteANDbrainy
Apr 18 2012, 07:53 PM
Question... shops are all saying not to drive it at all until it's towed and fixed. That I will do serious damage to the motor if it's got oil in it. On the other hand, how do I know if replacing the PCV valve has worked or not? Its only got a drip the size of a silver dollar in 24 hours and puffing at high speeds, but I don't want to lock the engine up.
Drive more slowly. It will not fart.

MMO in the oil.

VW 504.00/507.00 in the crankcase.

Chevron Techron in the fuel.

Drive somewhere where someone can clean out your EGR passages and PCV system.

Hopefully, this will keep your engine running, and improve it's performance.

Honestly, I see it all the time. New owner buys a Geo Metro that's been sitting for a while. Drives. Burns valves. Piston rings stuck. $400-800 valve job doesn't work. Call Geo Glenn.

Hopefully, magic liquids and a little bit of mechanical service will prevent this.

I did all of the above to my 1996 4 cylinder over 25,000 miles ago. It now has 142,000 miles. Still uses/leaks a liter every 1,200 miles or so. Still scheduled for ring replacement surgery. Just not today, or next week, or next month . . .
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Shinrin
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My advise is ignore the mechanics. Unless they have geos on the mind like the ones on this forum, they treat your car like trash. Buy some tools, do everything yourself. This cars get no respect from the standard mechanic.

As stated, replace pcv, its about $5 and gets neglected. Clean out that Ytube completely. Clean the oil out of the air filter box. Drive it. As long as you don't run low on oil, you shouldn't worry about harming the car. Its bad for it I'm sure, but it won't kill the car or leave you on the side of the road. I drove mine for months doing this, and it's a champ.

Get a spark plug socket and go to autozone and rent a compression tester. Do the test yourself so you actually have the numbers. One plug at a time, warm engine, wide open throttle. You want at least 156 psi per cylinder, and you want it even across all 3. There's a topic stickied that gives detailed instructions on how to do this.

If you have great compression, a new pcv, and clean Y tube and it still blows oil, you might need an oil check valve. It's a tiny BB inside a tiny metal case that sits inside the motor. If it's not there you'll keep shooting out smoke. If the engine hasn't been rebuilt you don't need to worry about that. If it was rebuilt, this piece can just roll out and once it leaves eye sight, it's gone for good. Once you get a new one, it'd be about a two hour job to replace it yourself. Or you can give a shop $200 to do it for you.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

And here come some bookmarks. ;)

Shinrin is right. Do not listening to anyone who does not own or at least love a Geo metro aka Suzuki Swift.

Oil fart - I had one after coasting most of the way down a long grade and then I got on the gas and could not see out my rear view mirror. :rofl Lasted less than a minute and is only embarrassing if you value the opinion of others who really don't count. I drove another 1,000 miles until the PCV clogged and blew out my cam seal. I drove the car home on 1/2 it's oil and it did not seize. My wife's car has not had a problem with the PCV, go figure.

Link: How to change a PCV valve Do this yourself and gain confidence, please. :thumb

You can borrow a compression tester or buy one at Harbor Freight at 4290 BELLS FERRY RD NW, STE 126. And use the link: How To Compression Test. Most tests aren't done with the throttle open. :smackface

If you keep the proper amount of oil and coolant in the engine it will not lock up. Carry 2 extra quarts of oil with you - I always have at lest one and a small collection of tools, some of which I got from Harbor Freight. Drive a little slower but KNOW that the oil fart is not the destroyer of engines.

Do we know someone from the Atlanta, Georgia area that could help here with a home visit?

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Bad Bent
Apr 18 2012, 11:04 PM

Do we know someone from the Atlanta, Georgia area that could help here with a home visit?

(link)-> jtmirolli <-(link) got a little hands on a few weeks ago when I visited him. He might be willing to lend a hand. I'm pretty sure he's up to speed on PCV valves. More of a spectator when it came to the EGR system, but, it's not all that hard, having seen it once. Finding the aircraft cable section to use for the "rotor rooter" proceedure is probably the biggest obstacle to be overcome for that task. Not cutting your hands with rapidly spinning aircraft cable is the second.
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dayle1960
Apr 18 2012, 07:12 PM

With the amount of oil you are claiming on the underside of your metro, you need to crawl underneath it and clean it..
Nah. Just leave that oil on the chassis. That's the best frame corrosion proofing known to man (woman) in Geo Metro world. If you've got axle seals that are leaking, it will keep the driver's side frame horns nice and rust free, also. :thumb :D :'(

Seriously, though. To find a leak, you've got to have a clean start. $5 at the car wash. Use the "Tire Cleaner". It used to be called "Engine Cleaner" until the EPA got all tree huggy about not cleaning engines where the waste water was going directly into the storm drain system.



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cuteANDbrainy
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Thank you all so much! I have renewed hope!

I will replace the PCV and clean the PCV/EGR system this weekend. Also, will run a compression check, add better oil, Techron, and MMO. Will report back!
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mippps
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I am chasing the same problem. I pulling the car from storage this week and sending my mechanic on the mission to find the geo metro gas fart problem. Read these two internet postings. They will probably be my problem.
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=46060&hilit=slinging
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=43561&start=0
The latter is what fixed the problem for the other metro owner.
Hope this helps.
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Shinrin
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On a side note you can rig a bottle up between the pcv and air filter to catch the oil blowing through.
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