Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are features you can't use and images you can't see. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: Join our community! |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Next Problem - Won't restart after driving; Gets warm and it won't start back up. | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: May 4 2012, 11:03 PM (1,322 Views) | |
| eabooher | May 4 2012, 11:03 PM Post #1 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
OK, you guys really helped me out with the sluggish 2000 1.0. Once I replaced the woodruff key, let the JB weld set up in the worn slot and got it back together, it runs like a scalded dog (I guess it would be a scalded shi tzu and not a greyhound since it's a 1.0 but you know what I mean)! Thanks again for the "redneck" fix. Anyway, the other problem still persists. Here is a rundown. - 2000 1.0, 5 speed - 154k miles - recent timing belt, water pump, plugs, cap and wires. - original oil pan sealant - no aftermarket cork gasket. When I had the crank sprocket off, I pulled the crank sensor and cleaned it off with a towel. The problem - Fires right up cold and seems to do great as long as I drive it. I shut it off and it will restart for about 10 minutes. After that it just spins over but doesn't fire off. After I let it sit for 2-3 hours it fires up and runs fine again. What I have checked: - Put gas in throttle body and it fires up until that gas is gone and then dies, so I am getting spark. - Had my son crank it when it is in the no start condition while watching the injector and it is not spraying in this condition. - checked and wiggled wires and connections. - listened for fuel pump and I hear it pressurizing. I was thinking crank sensor but read elsewhere on here that it is only for OBD II detecting a misfire condition. But other places I have read that putting in too thick of an oil pan gasket can cause a no start condition when warm since the expansion and the gasket make the distance between the crank sensor and the trigger too wide, but does this stop the fire or the injector pulse? Now I am thinking maybe camshaft sensor which I understand is in the distributor - is this true? What controls the pulse that goes to the fuel injector that tells it to spray? Cam sensor, crank sensor, something else? I don't want to just start throwing parts at the problem without getting the great guidance from you folks on this board. Again - starts up cold/cool and runs great as long as I leave it on but upon shutting off and trying to restart after 10 minutes of sitting, won't restart unless I dump gas in the throttle body. Starts fine after a couple hours. Thanks again in advance! |
![]() |
|
| HelterSkelter | May 4 2012, 11:55 PM Post #2 |
|
#1 Pizza Driver
![]()
|
timing?
|
![]() |
|
| Woodie | May 5 2012, 06:06 AM Post #3 |
![]()
|
Pretty much everything you mentioned is used by the computer to decide when to fire the injector and for how long. Lay a voltmeter on the connector for the fuel injector WHEN IT IS FAILING. With key on, engine off, you should have 12volts on both wires. When the engine is cranked over on the starter, one or the other should pulse on and off. Might be easier to see with a test light. If you've got 12 on one side and pulsing on and off on the other side, and no gas coming out, your injector is bad. |
![]() |
|
| 944door | May 5 2012, 06:37 AM Post #4 |
![]()
|
I had an ignition coil that went bad on mine that did the exact same friggin thing |
![]() |
|
| geo pet | May 5 2012, 07:01 AM Post #5 |
|
" my strange addiction "
![]()
|
|
![]() |
|
| eabooher | May 5 2012, 07:43 AM Post #6 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Thanks for the reply's guys. Valve timing is dead on, checked and double checked it when I put it back together after fixing the crank. Doesn't seem to be ignition timing either but will double check. I will check the voltage on the wires at the injector, seems like a simple enough diagnostic. I have a question for you guys that said your bad ignition coil did the same thing. Your bad coil still allowed the car to start if you dumped gas in the throttlebody but it wouldn't allow the injector to spray. Am I understanding you correctly? I would have thought the injector would have sprayed but there would have been no spark since the coil was bad. Hmmmm, that is interesting if my understanding of what you are saying is correct. Thanks again, Eric |
![]() |
|
| Coche Blanco | May 5 2012, 09:38 AM Post #7 |
|
Troll Certified
![]()
|
Woodie's on the right track, as usual. You have 2 out of the three. Can you find a known working injector? |
![]() |
|
| eabooher | May 5 2012, 10:23 AM Post #8 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No, I don't have any spares around. I've been watching for a cheap "parts" car to scavage parts from but haven't gotten one yet. I'm going to give the test a try and see what comes of it. It makes some sense. |
![]() |
|
| eabooher | May 5 2012, 11:05 AM Post #9 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
OK, voltage to the fuel injector on one side is 12V with the key on and 11.6 when operating starter. 0.02V on the other with key on and about the same running starter. Looks like the injector is not getting the voltage pulse it needs to fire. Camshaft sensor? Crankshaft sensor? Something else? Anyone have the voltage signals that these sensors should be sending out and where to check them? Thanks, Eric |
![]() |
|
| Bad Bent | May 5 2012, 02:37 PM Post #10 |
|
Facetious Educated Donkey
![]()
|
IF you pulled the crank, did you use a gasket on the oil pan when you put it back together? Any messing with the crank sensor? Unplugging, bent, broken wires, grease on the sensor, yada, yada, yada. Take a look at Test CKP and/or CMP sensor. Also the plate on the back of the crank sprocket has prongs that the crank sensor senses and they have been known to break off. |
![]() |
|
| eabooher | May 5 2012, 05:07 PM Post #11 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No, as in my first post, I used the redneck fix, oil pan has only the original sealant, no gasket to make the gap to wide and I cleaned the crank sensor and put it back in, I've wiggled and wiggled, unplugged and plugged back in over and over but nothing. As best as I can tell the oil pan has never been off. Replaced the crank sprocket with a new one since I destroyed the tabs when I removed it to do the redneck fix to the woodruff key slot. Problem existed both before and after I changed sprockets. If I can pin down which sensor tells the injector to spray I think we'll have it. From what I have read, both the crank and cam sensors have a part in it. The problem is definitely consistent. Starts up cold and runs great as long as you want to drive it. Shut it off and try to restart after 10 minutes, no start for about 2-3 hours. Pour gas in the throttle body it fires until it has burned all the gas and then dies. Checked the voltages to the injector when cold and in the start condition and one side has 12V both in run position and start. The other one pulses 0 to 12 volts. When it is hot in the NO start condition, one side has the 12V and the other side does not show a pulse. So something that sends the 12V pulse signal to the injector is breaking down when it gets hot. Just to figure out what it is. I do believe we are getting it narrowed down. I have pretty much ruled out fuel pump, strainer, and injector. Thanks again for the suggestions. |
![]() |
|
| JoeBob | May 5 2012, 05:58 PM Post #12 |
|
Why you Mutt!
![]()
|
Check OBDII trouble codes? |
![]() |
|
| Bad Bent | May 5 2012, 06:12 PM Post #13 |
|
Facetious Educated Donkey
![]()
|
FSM 6E2-C2-4 Driveability and Emissions "The Throttle Body Fuel Injection (TBI) unit consists of the main bore, aiand/or fuel passage, vacuum passage )for MAP sensor, EVAP and EGR system), air induction passage and the following parts: 1. Fuel injector which injects fuel according to the signal from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), 2. Fuel pressure regulator which maintains a certain amount higher than the pressure in the intake manifold, 3. Throttle valve which is interlocked with the accelerator pedal and controls the amount of air/fuel mixture drawn into the combustion chamber. 4. Idle Speed Control (ISC) motor which controls minimum throttle valve position (opening) t adjust engine idle speed, 5. Throttle Position sensor which detects the throttle calve position opening and sends a signal to the PCM. The fuel injector is an electromagnetic type injection nozzle which injects fuel in the TBI unit bore according to the signal from the PCM. When the solenoid coil of the fuel injector is energized by the PCM, it becomes an electromagnet and attracts to the plunger. At the same time, the needle valve, which in incorporated with the plunger, opens and the fuel injector, which is under fuel pressure, disperses fuel in a con shaped pattern. As the stroke of the needle valve of the fuel injector is set constant, the amount of time during which the solenoid coil is energized (injection time). |
![]() |
|
| eabooher | May 5 2012, 09:53 PM Post #14 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
OK, the PCM tells the injector to fire but it has to have something tell it when to send the 12V pulse to the injector. I gather that the PCM draws its info from both the cam and crank sensor. Is there a diagnostic test to see what the voltages from them should be, similar to how you can test a throttle position sensor? If so, does anyone know what the voltage range should be? Most of my experience with fuel injection is multi port EFI on 5.0 Mustangs. I am assuming you can check voltages the same way on these, just not sure what correct voltages are. As far as codes, I haven't checked as the engine light hasn't been coming on except the normal startup. Do these throw hard codes without illuminating the service engine light? Edited by eabooher, May 5 2012, 10:15 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Bad Bent | May 5 2012, 11:25 PM Post #15 |
|
Facetious Educated Donkey
![]()
|
1. In post #10 above there is a link that looks like this: Test CKP and/or CMP sensor. Please click on it. 2. With OBDII you will have "pending" codes that you can read. I get them on our 1995 and I can read them with my $35 Code Reader I got off eBay. I'd check them just in case. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Engine Tech & Diagnostics · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2


Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


![]](http://z3.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)






7:46 PM Jul 10