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Switching to LED bulbs?
Topic Started: May 5 2012, 09:54 PM (6,894 Views)
arollinstone
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On a Mission from God

Bad Bent
May 6 2012, 12:47 PM

Quite possible that drivers behind me do a double take when they see the spastic turn signal. :spaz
I don't mind it. at night driving like a turtle it gives the cars coming up behind me a warning :)
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t3ragtop
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker

when i switched to led lighting on the turn signals i found that the metro wiring polarity is reversed. you use a transistorized flasher (solid state) and make some jumper wires terminated with spade connectors. mount the bigger flasher package away from the fuse panel, reverse the polarity of the relay coil connection using the jumpers, and the hyper-flash problem is tamed. i noticed that even if you use the solid state relay, they still need a nominal resistance. i couldn't get a normal flasher rate if i used leds in all 4 corners so i used incandescent bulbs in the front turn signals and the leds in the rear.

pay attention to the advice about using surface mounted device (smd) leds. they are the latest and greatest rendition of the led world and they are brighter, allowing for more leds to be fitted in a lamp assembly. the ones i used for the brake/ running light positions have something on the order of 84 individual smd leds on them. the ones i used in the turn signal position have something like 40 smd leds.

those are considerably brighter than the oem incandescents while using a fraction of the current.
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Nappers
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nerys
May 5 2012, 11:14 PM
The flasher works by detecting a certain amount of resistance (power draw) from the blinkers.

some cars won't flash and some cars will "rapid flash" since the lack of resistance is "seen" as a "bulb out" situation.

the electronic flasher solves this.

resistors are NOT than answer since they defeat half the whole point of going to LED.

all your "bulbs" consume a tremendous amount of power. way more than you might think. those 1156/57 bulbs?21 WATTS EACH (one HEADLIGHT is 55watts) wow !

adding the resistors "CONSUMES" the power you saved with the LED as "heat"

get an electronic flasher.

NOW the core problem I encounter is shoddy or over driven LED's

so far my new favorite pet's for LED's are these SMD based bulbs so those are the ONLY ones I will buy. (so far all my SMD based bulbs are holding up fantastic no burn outs VERY bright zero issues.

every single NON SMD based led bulb I have purchased has burned out and in SHORT order (minutes (some seconds)) to months tops.

let me say that again. 100% of them have "died" and very rapidly.

so stick with SMD. whatever bulb you want for example if you need an 1156

in ebay put in 1156 smd and look around. add "US" and you might find some that SHIP FROM the US. usually a couple dollars more (all these bulbs are very cheap BTW) but you will get it in under a week instead of 2 months :-)
What he said!

I stand corrected on the resistor comment. I thought I read that. but the solid state flasher makes good sense!
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nerys
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Grr

ahh did not know that about the reverse connection.

I am surprised its relevant. 2 are power to activate the relay the other 2 are simply "completing" a circuit. I am surprise their polarity makes any difference at all.

interesting.
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richscudder
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Member
[ *  *  * ]
does anyone have a list of all the bulbs in the metro? i have been searching the web with little luck. i am especially interested in the bulbs in the instrument cluster, as some of mine appear to be out and i don't want to pull all apart to figure the bulbs out (i hate pulling that thing apart). if it's already been posted could you give me the link
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clarkdw


From my 94 FSM

Back up lamps 921 [2]
Center high mount stop lamp convertible 46 [2]
Center high mount stop lamp hardtop 921 [1]
Fr side marker lamps 168 [2]
Fr turn signal 1156 [2]
Headlamps composite 9004 [2]
Headlamps sealed beams 6052 [2]
License plate 168 [2]
Rear side markers 194 [2]
Stop/taillamps 1157 [2]
Rear turn signals 1156 [2]
Dome lamp GM #96051559 [1]
Instrument panel illumination 158 [2]
Instrument panel indicators 74 [11-14]
Ashtray 74 [1]
cigar lighter 74 [1]
heater control 74 [1]
Manual selector illumination lamp GM 96057076 [1]
Rear defogger switch GM 96066300 [1]
Rear defogger indicator GM 96061736 [1]
Rear wiper washer switch GM 96061736 [2]

I hope this is useful I am such a slow typist! :banghead
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Jimmyjamx22
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Did some looking up on ebay and google, Seems the SMD LED T10 (however many led's you want) Will fit a wide range of ares,

921 (Back up lamps) 168 (License plate, Front markers) 194 (Dome light)

the price difference from US and Asia is enormous! like a 3-6x more. I am in no rush to change these so if I'm gonna save well over 40-50 bucks for all its worth the wait. They probably get them from over seas anyways lol.
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richscudder
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thx for bulb list.
i read on autozone's web site that the tridon ep34 turn signal flasher is a fit for the metro and is also electronic and led compatible.
check this site for bulbs http://www.superbrightleds.com/
Edited by richscudder, May 26 2012, 06:33 PM.
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JellyBeanDriver


richscudder
May 26 2012, 06:29 PM
thx for bulb list.
i read on autozone's web site that the tridon ep34 turn signal flasher is a fit for the metro and is also electronic and led compatible.
check this site for bulbs http://www.superbrightleds.com/
Just checked and it won't work if you go 100% LED (per reviews on Amazon)
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z34-5speed
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Formerly "Tech Certified"

I used LEDs in my gauge cluster lights.

Turned out well!

Posted Image
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clarkdw


The cluster did turn out nice. :thumb Got a link or reference as to where you got them?
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clarkdw


JellyBeanDriver
May 26 2012, 08:11 PM
richscudder
May 26 2012, 06:29 PM
thx for bulb list.
i read on autozone's web site that the tridon ep34 turn signal flasher is a fit for the metro and is also electronic and led compatible.
check this site for bulbs http://www.superbrightleds.com/
Just checked and it won't work if you go 100% LED (per reviews on Amazon)
You mean the frantic flasher deal?
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JellyBeanDriver


z34-5speed
May 26 2012, 08:23 PM
I used LEDs in my gauge cluster lights.

Turned out well!
How well do they dim?

clarkdw
 
You mean the frantic flasher deal?


Yes, from what I read in the reviews on Amazon
Quote:
 
For this to fix hyperflash, you can only run two led lights (either front or rear) If you are running LED front and rear you can still modify this flasher to work, but its designed to flash 2 normal bulbs and 6 hazard lights, per their website (novitatech.com)



Found this link that shows how to modify the EP34 flasher to work with all LED's
http://www.acksfaq.com/LED-turn-signals.htm
Edited by JellyBeanDriver, May 26 2012, 11:32 PM.
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t3ragtop
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker

nerys
May 7 2012, 12:16 AM
ahh did not know that about the reverse connection.

I am surprised its relevant. 2 are power to activate the relay the other 2 are simply "completing" a circuit. I am surprise their polarity makes any difference at all.

interesting.
nerys.

since the relay is solid state, it has a timing circuit that triggers a transistor to control the flash rate. it does have forward and reverse polarity issues. that's why you have to orient the leads according to + and - . the geo just uses a different wiring configuration which has the opposite orientation of the relay pin out.

when i converted my red resto-rod vert to leds, i replaced all the bulbs except the turn signals with appropriate led bulbs. i left the turn signal bulbs with standard incandescents so i didn't have to piddle with the flasher.

here's the bulb replacement list for my 91 model:

1991 GEO Metro (With halogen capsule headlamps)

High & low beam headlamp
9004
9004SU SilverStar Ultra: The brightest and whitest light. Up to 50% brighter, up to 40% more downroad visibility and up to 50% more sideroad visibility.
9004ST SilverStar: The brighter and whiter light. Up to 35% brighter, up to 30% more downroad visibility and up to 35% more sideroad visibility.
9004EB EcoBright - Your Environmental Choice. Save Energy - Save Money. Up to 25% brighter light. CO2 reduced 9 to 21%. Gas savings $2 to $19.
9004XV XtraVision: The brighter light for upgraded performance. Up to 30% brighter light and up to 25% more downroad visibility.
9004CB Cool Blue: The whiter light for style. Up to 25% brighter light and up to 25% more downroad visibility.

Parking light
194
194LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Front turn signal
1156
1156ST SilverStar: The brighter, whiter signal light. Up to 30% brighter light, up to 20% whiter light and up to 10% farther and wider.
1156LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Rear turn signal
1157
1157ST SilverStar: The brighter, whiter signal light. Up to 30% brighter light, up to 20% whiter light and up to 10% farther and wider.
1157LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Tail light
1157
1157ST SilverStar: The brighter, whiter signal light. Up to 30% brighter light, up to 20% whiter light and up to 10% farther and wider.
1157LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Stop light
1157
1157ST SilverStar: The brighter, whiter signal light. Up to 30% brighter light, up to 20% whiter light and up to 10% farther and wider.
1157LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

High mount stop light
1156
1156ST SilverStar: The brighter, whiter signal light. Up to 30% brighter light, up to 20% whiter light and up to 10% farther and wider.
1156LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

License plate
67
67LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Back up light
1156
1156ST SilverStar: The brighter, whiter signal light. Up to 30% brighter light, up to 20% whiter light and up to 10% farther and wider.
1156LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Front sidemarker
168
168LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Rear sidemarker
168
168LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Ash tray
74
74LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Dome light
DE3022
DE3022LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Step/Courtesy light
194
194LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.
74
74LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Instrument-general
158
158LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.
194
194LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.
74
74LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Hi-beam indicator
74
74LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Seat belt indicator
74
74LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Brake warning
74
74LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Automatic transmission indicator
74
74LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.

Directional signal indicator
158
158LL SYLVANIA Long Life miniature bulbs perform twice as long as any standard miniature bulb. Designed for durability, lower maintenance and greater safety.
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t3ragtop
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker

i also want to point out that there a few pitfalls when you swap out some of the bulbs with leds.

the front corner lights take 194 bulbs and most of the smd leds are too long to fit into the little amber colored domes. i had to chop the base a little bit and then carefully push and twist the bulb socket into position. it's an interference fit, even at that.

some of the rear light lens sockets have limited space which makes led bulb selection critical. you don't want to go overboard with the smd led count or the bulbs are too long for a proper fit. in the rear side marker positions i had to use the older type leds instead of the smd type. there's just not enough clearance to deal with even the 5 smd "cube" style leds in that position. your best bet for the front and rear side marker positions will be inverted type gen 1 194 leds. the focused lens types will fit, they just light up "dots" on the plastic lenses.
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