Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are features you can't use and images you can't see. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: Join our community! |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Best vert top ?? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 18 2012, 08:17 AM (2,872 Views) | |
| Truck | Jun 18 2012, 08:17 AM Post #1 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
First an intro as I'm new here. I just bought my son a 93 metro convertible. I figured it would be a good fun first car that can't get him in to much trouble. I had one in the late 90s and loved it until it got totaled when it got hit by someone else. I've been reading on some interesting mods to make these a little more comfortable (ie. honda seats, neon console, etc). What I really need to know at the moment is about tops. The top on ours has cuts in the window that had been patched, but the top seemed in good shape, so I was just going to get a new window kit from here: http://www.emiata.com/ContactWindow.asp?GeoMetrohttp://www.emiata.com/ContactWindow.asp?GeoMetro However, the other day when I was putting the top up the rear window split a 1/4 of the way across and the top tore (I think it must have brittle). I don't know how old the top is, but i think it had been replaced as the rear deck boot lid would not fit when the top was up (sides too tight and lid wings couldn't go out far enough). So after that background, here is my question. There are several vinyl tops out there ($175 - $350) on ebay and here: http://www.convertibletopguys.com/category/view/655 Most have weld in windows but some have zippered windows. Are these all the same? Are the cheapest ones the same as the more expensive? Is there a top (brand) that is better and more durable than the other? Would a zip out window be better for easy replacement? Is the canvas top more durable and that much nicer to be worth the money? If you haven't gotten the point I want something that is durable and takes the exercise of multiple up and down without tearing, ripping or cracking. Thanks for any input I can get. Truck |
![]() |
|
| idmetro | Jun 18 2012, 09:05 AM Post #2 |
![]()
|
T3 has installed a beautiful canvas top on his vert: http://geometroforum.com/topic/4748047/9/#new |
![]() |
|
| t3ragtop | Jun 18 2012, 04:33 PM Post #3 |
|
Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
![]()
|
i've pretty much specialized in metro verts for about 10 years. i've replaced a bunch of tops, too. if you are going to do this yourself i would recommend that you cut your teeth on the task by using a replacement pinpoint vinyl top from EZON. that will have all of the mounting holes pre-punched which makes them a quick installation. the haartz pinpoint vinyl tops are guaranteed for 3 years against material defects and you can expect a 3 to 5 year service life if you keep the top clean, don't use anything like armor all on it, and don't raise or lower the top in temps below around 60* f. there are also tops which are described as sailcloth which are fabricated using a slit and woven vinyl material laminated over a rubber substrate. those have a longer service life, a better appearance, and are slightly harder to install. the guarantee for those is 5 years. the top of the line will be the canvass tops. those use a tightly woven fabric over a rubber substrate with an inner liner laminated to the bottom. the canvass tops are probably the most handsome of the bunch but they are absolutely the hardest to install. they require a bunch of stretching and fitting. there are no holes, you punch those as you go. they fit up really nicely but you really have to fiddle with the installation. when they are installed and finished, the canvass tops are very, very good looking. you can also choose from a wider selection of colors for those. they are guaranteed against material defects for 6 years. to give you an idea of what you are getting into, a pinpoint vinyl top installation including removal of the old rag, figuring on 2 or 3 of the hold down screws' heads stripping out, cleaning the body tub and top frame, and installing the new rag, will take an average of 6 hours. i just installed a canvass top this past weekend, had 2 stripped screws, dealt with a considerable amount of dirt and dust along with a little rust remediation, and got the job done in just over 12 hours. ......and i pretty much know what i'm doing. ![]() right now there is a seller on ebay who is doing a super deal on black EZON or Germanex canvass tops for the metro vert at $269 plus shipping ($25 from california to ohio.) that's about $130 less than any other auto trim outfit sells them. the ebay seller's handle is -diamondmall - david daoud. he was really good with his communication during and after the sale. i recommend him. it takes about 2 weeks from paypal transmittal until the top is at your door as they are custom cut using a $1.2 million laser die cutting machine in lots of 5. custom color orders are $70 higher due to the fact that the manufacturer cuts those 1 at a time instead of 5 at a time so the extra cost is a machine set up fee. you will also want to line up some new hardware for the installation. i use m4 x 25mm stainless steel button head allen screws (one guy here who asked me about the screw size came back and hammered me, telling me that they were some sae fractional size. believe me, the oem screws are m4.) you'll also want to find some stainless flat washers to fit the screws and some rubber or vinyl sealing washers. there's a total of 16 fastener sets, 3 on each side under the quarter trim and 10 along the rear flange. the hardware will set you back about $15 at a good hardware store. consider ordering a new set of tensioning cables, too. some cars i've done had frayed cables and those need replacement. you never know until you peel the old rag back whether the cables can be re-used or whether you need new ones. also, there are plastic roller guides under the top, now unavailable from the dealers. i found replacement rollers for screens in sliding glass doors that had ball bearing centers that i was able to adapt for my new top. that would depend on your local hardware store's stock and your level of ingenuity. that's the run down. good luck, and above all, have fun.
|
![]() |
|
| Mythstae | Jun 18 2012, 04:39 PM Post #4 |
![]()
|
Dang, t3, that's PRETTY! |
![]() |
|
| Truck | Jun 18 2012, 10:08 PM Post #5 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
T3, Canvas does look good. I'm not afraid of much and have car tear down and rebuilt for years (mostly jeeps). Any preference on zip or weld windows? zip seems like it could be zipped down and hang thus not folded when top is down or it could be replaced easily (maybe cheaper) then whole top if it were to crack. How is the window quality of diamondmall's canvas top? If I decide to go this way I may ask for some pointers? While shopping for a metro, I heard several owners say their new top was ripped or window split not long after installation. Is there something in the mechanism that needs to be looked out for while putting top up and down? Truck |
![]() |
|
| t3ragtop | Jun 18 2012, 10:43 PM Post #6 |
|
Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
![]()
|
there are really only a few manufacturers of the tops. i gave the names of the best ones - EZON and Germanex. those are the ones that diamondmall sells for $269. i'm not sure how long he'll offer that price but it's $130 cheaper than the other guys who peddle the same brands. personally, i'd stay away from the Acme brand. i got one of those 6 years ago and i sent that back as soon as i pulled it out of the box and requested an EZON. every top has to meet usdot specs for the rear light (window) with the standard being 40 mil vinyl. the vinyl rear light in the canvass top i just used actually has a dot approved stamp in the lower left corner. the oem spec was a pinpoint vinyl (japanese) with heat welded seams and a fixed rear light. the old top i removed was the original top, 21 years old. you can tell if it was an oem top because they had 3 velcro pads at the bottom (under the trunk lid) that the oem window protector was attached to. the protector kept the folded rear light from scuffing when the top was stowed. there's nothing in the top frame that would cut the rear light when the top was stowed. typically, the top folds into itself automatically. i use a cotton bath towel laid on the back when i fold the top down and that works like the factory protector for the rear window. the zippered rear light option was something that the aftermarket guys did, not oem. that option runs about $75 extra but don't think that the rear light zips all the way out. the zipper runs on 3 sides and just lets you unzip the window so that it hangs down into the fabric cradle in the boot, an option for better air circulation with the top up. you would still have to remove the top to replace the rear window and you'd have to find a trim shop to remove the panel, replace the vinyl light, and resew the panel back into the top. the labor charge for that would probably be around the same cost as a new top. if the top rips or the window splits after installation, i'd have to say that the installation was done wrong. i've replaced a bunch of metro vert tops without any problems and they gave years of service until they finally shrank enough to make closing them a 2 person undertaking. the canvass tops use a rubber lamination instead of a single layer of vinyl and they are much better about shrinkage and cool weather operation. as tight as my top is, closing it is pretty easy. it comes down to about an inch of the windshield frame and a steady 2 handed pull brings the alignment pins into position and close enough for the cam latches to operate smoothly. you can feel the rubber substrate pull into place. also, i think that the wind noise is less with my new top on the highway. it rained the day after i installed it and the water beads up like it's on freshly waxed paint and rolls off in big drops. |
![]() |
|
| Truck | Jun 26 2012, 09:40 PM Post #7 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
T3, Sorry for slow reply, I was out of town. I appreciate your input. I'll let ya'll know what all we end up doing. truck |
![]() |
|
| Memphis metro | Jun 28 2012, 05:44 PM Post #8 |
![]()
|
http://www.miamicorp.com/default.aspx?page=item%20detail&itemcode=WC149-BLKB-ST http://www.germaneximportsinc.com/view_cart.asp |
![]() |
|
| Deckers | Jun 29 2012, 05:50 PM Post #9 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I hate to cut in here, but would there still be demand for a hardtop? I have to replace mine again and I am still wondering if I laid one up if there would be sufficient demand to make more than one around. |
![]() |
|
| t3ragtop | Jun 30 2012, 06:42 PM Post #10 |
|
Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
![]()
|
deckers, the design goal for a vert is based on the concept that you can put the top down easily. ![]() with a hardtop you lose that facility. to get a hardtop to work you will end up removing the ragtop from the body tub (or else you cannot attach the hardtop.) when you do that you take away the option of driving the car topless yet carrying the rag to employ for parking security, protection from bird crap, and the rain event you're likely to run into while out on the road. i've discussed the hardtop with a lot of well intentioned diy'ers including the cat in california who built a one off hardtop and installed a diesel engine in his vert. his deal was that he really didn't care for the drop top all that much in the first place. i wish you the very best of luck in your endeavors but, personally, i'm way to fond of my convertible cars to want to turn them into 2 door sedans. ![]() |
![]() |
|
| rademmacliffe | Jun 30 2012, 08:33 PM Post #11 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Hello! new to the site! I am fixing up my little geo metro convertible and by the end of this summer I would like to replace the top, however! the darn top has problems doing on smoothly... there are some missing pieces I'm guessing on actual top. Any suggestions of where I should go to have the frame fixed and pay to have the top replaced? |
![]() |
|
| t3ragtop | Jun 30 2012, 09:11 PM Post #12 |
|
Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
![]()
|
unfortunately, there will be no dealer support for locating parts. it takes a vert donor these days for anything related to the top frame and a donor is getting hard to come by. almost any automotive trim shop would be able to install a top. figure 6 to 10 hours of labor for cleaning and installation. i'd imagine a shop would charge $300 to $400 for installation. |
![]() |
|
| rademmacliffe | Jun 30 2012, 09:44 PM Post #13 |
|
New Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Oh yuck! I was reading on www.convertibletopguys.com that..... THE GEO METRO DO-IT-YOURSELF PACKAGE There's no stapling or sewing involved in installing a Geo Metro top. In fact, many of our customers follow our instruction manuals and install their own Geo Metro convertible tops -- and save hundreds of dollars on labor costs! Could you be next? Then consider our Best Buy Geo Metro Do-It-Yourself Package, which includes everything you need to install your Geo Metro top -- even our hand-holding Geo Metro convertible top installation manual. The package includes: Original Haartz Pinpoint Vinyl Geo Metro Convertible Top in Black 4-ounce Trimmer Contact Cement With Brush Pry Tool for Prying and Re-installing Seals Pair of Original Configuration Hold Down Cables Step-by-step Geo Metro Convertible Top Installation Manual Price: $239.95 Color: Black In your opinion... is this something that I can do with no knowledge of doing on my own? |
![]() |
|
| Deckers | Jul 2 2012, 11:36 AM Post #14 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
It goes on relatively easy. My girlfriend and I changed mine out in two hours. |
![]() |
|
| t3ragtop | Jul 2 2012, 09:38 PM Post #15 |
|
Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
![]()
|
deckers, you must have skipped most of the cleaning and waxing. you also must have been lucky enough to not have to fight with rusty hardware. ![]() i spent 2 hours extracting screws with the torx drive stripped out and another 2 hours cleaning and waxing the tub under the old top and the entire frame, and then some time taking care of rustproofing down inside the rear quarters while the old rag was off. also, the vinyl tops install quicker and easier than the fabric tops. that said, the fabric tops are way better looking, are more durable, and don't have the same cold temperature closure problems. radem, it's hard for me to estimate your level of ability from an internet post. you have to have some skills, an eye for detail, and patience. it's not a terribly hard job but it does take some time and you have to have a feel for working wrinkles out while you're installing the top. my first top installation wasn't my best one. i get a little better with each rag i put on. one of the big mistakes i see guys make on the installation is that they start at the front. to do it right, you start at the back and finish at the front. after i get the back and sides stretched and fastened into place, i put the rear tonneau covers on and fold the top half way back. then i stand in the rear of the car to fit the top's front edge to the header bow using the front seam to gauge alignment. above everything, i would urge you to line up your new screws for the rear before you start. you'll need 16 m4 x .70 x 35 or 40 mm long panhead or button head screws. i use a2 stainless steel with allen drives, stainless flat washers, and neoprene sealing washers when i do a new top. you'll see why i do that when you start to remove the old screws. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Body/Chassis/Interior · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2


Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


![]](http://z3.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)






9:22 AM Jul 11