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it's me again; more problems to solve...
Topic Started: Jul 20 2012, 08:37 PM (1,269 Views)
WRMorrison
New Member
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After I replaced the water pump and lubed the accelerator cable, I thought my worries were over...

I knew that there were a few oil leaks; mainly the lower seal and valve cover, and it's been leaking quite a bit. This weekend I'll be changing the valve cover and oil pan gaskets and the lower seal. But earlier this week, my mother had to take it in to renew the registration (if you remember, this is her car; not mine) and it was discovered that it was due for emissions testing...and it failed miserably.

It passed one of the three tests, NOX, but it failed the HC and CO tests pretty badly. HC was 3.26 (0.8 is the standard) and CO was 24.72 (12.00 is the standard). Any ideas what can be done to improve these numbers?

Also....here's the MAJOR issue: I picked the car up today and brought it home to change the gaskets and seal that I mentioned, and as I was leaving her place I notice a little smoke coming from the tailpipe. Maybe it has always smoked at times and I never noticed it...dunno. It stopped smoking though, so it might have been from oil dripping down on the engine when a little spilled while adding more oil. On the way home this evening, about 2 miles from my house (on the interstate; 65MPH), the engine slowed to about 50MPH and started surging badly. It never died, but was constantly revving up and down...surging is the best term I can think of to describe it.

Whenever I got off on my exit and slowed to the stop, it ran fine. It also ran and drove fine the rest of the way home (about 40-45MPH average). Maybe it just doesn't like 65MPH all of a sudden? I drove it that one week (maybe 2 weeks ago) about 100 miles each day, averaging 65-75MPH without a problem; this issue just came about all of a sudden.

If I can find a pressure tester to borrow, what is the static and idle fuel pressure supposed to be? Maybe there's a fuel pump issue at hand. Also, since it's leaking and/or using oil, it wouldn't hurt to check the engine compression. I know that the lowest cylinder is supposed to be within a certain % of the highest cylinder, but what kind of numbers would I "like" to see?

Again, thanks in advance; this site has some very knowledgeable people on these little cars!

-WRM
Edited by WRMorrison, Jul 20 2012, 08:38 PM.
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idmetro
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I'm not certain of the fuel pressure numbers but cylinder pressure factory minimum is 156psi and typically the rule of thumb is cylinders should be within 10% of each other, the farther apart they are the rougher it will run.

Your compression test will tell you the general health of your engine, you will wan to run a dry and wet compression test http://geometroforum.com/topic/2574993/1/

Good Luck!
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WRMorrison
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Thanks; when I get some compression numbers I'll be sure to post them. But now that I have a guideline to go by, at least I'll have an idea of what I'm looking at.

-WRM
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WRMorrison
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I wonder what would cause the "surging" issue though? No CEL, so no codes...

-WRM
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Scoobs
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:D

Fuel pressure has to be 14psi and higher while idling. and maintain that even WOT. any lower it will run like crap. key on engine off, i think is 35+psi
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Jittney
Anchorage 92 XFi

23-30 psi key on engine off and 13 - 20psi idling
clarkdw corrected me on that one :)
fwiw, I had low compression on cylinder #2 after I bought my car.
I started using a larger filter (Baldwin B2) and synthetic oil...and #2 compression went up.
Do not put an oil pan gasket on, but just use RTV sealant.
Some use red RTV, and some use Black.
I've used both, and think that the red worked better for me.
The valve cover might be leaking, or it might not.
If it looks like it's leaking over by the distributor, check the oring on the distributor.
Keep us posted :news
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WRMorrison
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Thanks! The valve cover is definitely leaking; mostly in the area near the upper timing sprocket. I'll get things checked out today sometime and report back.

-WRM
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WRMorrison
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Quick update: I just checked the compression and it looks great:

1: 171
2: 171
3: 168

I changed the plugs about 2 weeks ago, and they look awful. #1 looks ok, #2 was very oily, and #3 was caked with white/brown ash. I'm not an expert by any means, but it looks like I'll be needing to replace valve guide seals in addition to the other stuff that needs done...

-WRM
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clarkdw


Valve stem seals can be done without removing the head. That and some would suggest Marvel Mystery oil treatment to fee up tthe oil control rings.

Those two things may get you where you want to be. ^o) Cheap and easy. If it doesn't help as much as needed then it is rering and head refresh time.

:popcorn
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WRMorrison
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clarkdw
Jul 21 2012, 01:19 PM
That and some would suggest Marvel Mystery oil treatment to fee up tthe oil control rings.


I did that a couple weeks ago

-WRM
Edited by WRMorrison, Jul 21 2012, 09:25 PM.
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Woodie
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Oil leak is more likely the cam seal. As Jittney said, no need for an oil pan gasket, many people have had trouble getting them to seal. They work great in the trash, RTV between the pan and the block.
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Old Man


WRMorrison
Jul 21 2012, 09:24 PM
clarkdw
Jul 21 2012, 01:19 PM
That and some would suggest Marvel Mystery oil treatment to fee up tthe oil control rings.


I did that a couple weeks ago

-WRM
When I first bought my Metro it took about 4 tanks of gas and a couple of oil changes to get the full benefit of MMO----"couple of weeks" is not near enough time
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WRMorrison
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That sucks to hear about the pan gasket, since I'v already bought it. But, if RTV works better, I can use that (and I already have it). As for the Marvel Mystery Oil, am I supposed to leave it in the oil until the next oil change, or should I drain it after a couple hundred miles? With the pan and valve cover gasket off, the oil residue on the block walls and internals appears a bit burnt to me. I'm not sure how clean it's all supposed to look, but I'd like it to just appear oily; not burnt-looking.

Once this is all buttoned back up today, I'll try and cobble together an adapter to use with the fuel pressure gauge I borrowed and check the fuel pump and pressure regulator.

-WRM
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WRMorrison
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Update:

I checked the fuel pressure a few times, and here's what I got:

1st attempt: 21 idle / 26 static
2nd attempt: 21 idle / 18 static
3rd attempt: 21 idle / 19 static

Compared to the numbers I was given, the pressure at idle seems to be fine, but static pressure is about 7-12PSI short of where it should be. I also tried to check the pressure regulator by pinching off the return line, and if I even start to pinch the line, the pressure spikes dramatically. This is what it's supposed to do, right?

Is my static pressure low enough to consider buying a new fuel pump? To give you an idea of how old it is, this is from a '95 Metro 3 cylinder with about 135K miles. Also, I already changed the fuel filter about 2 weeks ago, and just double-checked to make sure that none of the lines are pinched (they're not).

I think I'll try to deliver it back to my mom this evening and see how it does on the interstate on the way over.

BTW, it was fairly tricky getting the oil pan off/on without removing the oil pickup tube/screen, but it apparently can be done...lol.

Thanks for all the help so far,
WRM
Edited by WRMorrison, Jul 22 2012, 05:29 PM.
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WRMorrison
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Forgot to ask; is there anything I can do to increase my chances of passing emissions testing? More specifically, the HC and CO tests? I was hoping that there was some kind of additives that I could add to the fuel to help pass the tests... She has to pass emissions by the end of the month if possible...

-WRM
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