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Wheel Stud Conundrum; longer studs, or shanked lug nuts (drilling req'd)
Topic Started: Jul 23 2012, 06:34 PM (2,503 Views)
bbowens
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one of my projects has been to change the wheels on my vert. I chose to use 14" wheels from a 1995 Hyundai Elantra , but the studs are too short by 6-10mm. I'm investigating two ways of resolving this--either with a longer stud, or a "shanked" lug nut (also called "extended tip").

There are issues with each, though. For the changeout of the studs, I'm faced with making some decisions regarding the knurled, or serrated, part of the stud where it presses into the hub. The ones I've been looking at show a shorter length of the knurled area, like maybe by half, and a slightly larger diameter (.509" vs .490"). I've been told by ARP that there should be an interference fit of .005-.006", but I don't know what the hole diameter of the hub is. Also, the knurled length is 14mm on the fronts, and 9.5mm on the rears (according to Dormans catalog), so I don't know if I'll be able to find a single stud for both the front and rear.

The other option, aside from changing out the studs, is to use the type of lug nut that has a shank extending down into the mounting hole. Unfortunately, there isn't enough clearance around the stud, so I'd have to get the mounting holes enlarged; not even sure if I can find a machine shop willing to do that, or if it will be cost-effective.

If anyone knows their way around this situation, I'd appreciate some feedback. The less machining, the better :thumb

here is the stock arrangement, according to Dormans:
Posted Image
Edited by bbowens, Jul 23 2012, 06:38 PM.
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Cardinal Grammeter
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If a shanked nut is mean to work and the only problem is that the OD of the shank is too large to fit through the wheel hole, why not just machine that OD down to one that fits?

These are alloy wheels, right? I assume the hole you are trying to pass through is actually a bore with a depth. If you machined the nuts to clear the bore with .002 to .005 clearance (or less), I would think that would be a very good way to attach the wheel. The bore/nut fit would keep the studs/nuts from "bending over" under side loading. This would reduce the bending stress on the long stud and allow it to carry a higher load. If the bore length is greater than or equal to the diameter, you should get this effect - the longer the bore, the better.

Note: This all assumes that these wheels are meant to be used with "shank nuts." If the bore diameter is too small, the shank portion of the nut could break off if the stud is only engaging in the shank portion.
________________________

Also, I don't think you need full depth engagement of the knurled portion of the shoulder. It is probably more important that the shoulder length match the flange thickness.

Tom


Tom
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bbowens
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I just got a quote from a local machine shop for enlarging the mounting holes in the wheels, $200. They charge $70/hr, so that's roughly 2 1/2 hrs...
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toolcrib
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[ *  *  * ]
When I put aluminum wheels on my 1998 sedan, I was not comfortable with the amount of thread engagement on the lug nuts. I ended up replacing all of the studs with Dorman 610-402. These are listed by Dorman as the extended version for the Metro. These studs are only 5.5 mm longer than the 610-336 stud listed for front fitment, but that was all I needed to get the engagement I was looking for.

The benefit is that the knurled portion is the exact same diameter as factory and they are short enough that I can use closed end lug nuts even when I put steel wheels on.

Andrew
Edited by toolcrib, Jul 27 2012, 10:17 AM.
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Old Man


2 1/2 hours !!!??? thats outrageous. I could do that job in my garage with a 1/2 inch drill motor and the correct reamer in 20 minutes.
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snowfish
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Basic GearHead

All 16 holes will take about 2hrs, counting some visiting & joking around with the neighbor that letting you borrow his drill press, and cleaning up. :drink

Lot's of cutting oil, a couple bits, and slow going. :tumbleweed
Removing 2mm, of material, is more than you think. :O Would not attempt with a hand drill. :banghead The need to be very straight & centered. ^o)

I know..........20 minutes is just a figure of speech. :rofl
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bbowens
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toolcrib
Jul 27 2012, 09:59 AM
I ended up replacing all of the studs with Dorman 610-402. These are listed by Dorman as the extended version for the Metro.
that's where I hope to be heading, too--the Dorman 610-402. I'm going to pull them first and measure the holes, though, just to be sure that I can't use something larger diameter knurl with a longer stud.
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georandy
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Those are some expensive wheels. You must really like them.

update, new studs

That's the way to go!

Can't wait to see them on. You will show us pics?? Right?
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t3ragtop
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker

check the listings for the suzuki swift gt. i've gone to the effort of harvesting those lugs from bad rear hubs.

old man, you're right on the money. a 1/2" drill motor and the proper machine drill, 20 minutes - i'd be bolting the wheels on.

i bought a set of those 12mm extended shoulder lug nuts from gorilla. they have a 60* bevel with a short square shoulder. those are supposed to add 4 or 5 threads to the lug nuts and also allow you to adapt wheels without having to fiddle with concentric locating rings. including shipping they were about $36.

i averted a lot of the bother by just buying rims that fit my cars. :D

as for bartering beer for using a drill press, i have a nice machine but it doesn't have enough "throat" to be of any use drilling rims. the machine shop was quoting time on a horizontal boring machine. either that or old cletus the chip puller will be at the back of the shop with a 1/2" drill motor and a rusty 1/2" bit. :D
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bbowens
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georandy
Aug 6 2012, 03:46 PM
Those are some expensive wheels. You must really like them.

update, new studs

That's the way to go!

Can't wait to see them on. You will show us pics?? Right?
$175 for four, shipped? I thought that was pretty damned reasonable--shown here (without the center caps on).

I ended up getting set of OBX wheel studs on ebay from racingpartsdepot. All the dimensions are stock, except for the length, so I don't have to drill or get different lug nuts:
OBX Extended Wheel Studs - Nissan/Saab/Subaru
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bbowens
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t3ragtop
Aug 6 2012, 04:32 PM
i bought a set of those 12mm extended shoulder lug nuts from gorilla. they have a 60* bevel with a short square shoulder. those are supposed to add 4 or 5 threads to the lug nuts and also allow you to adapt wheels without having to fiddle with concentric locating rings. including shipping they were about $36.
I considered the extended shank lug nuts, but there wasn't enough clearance in the wheel stud bores, so I'd end up having to drill those, too. I don't have access to a drill press, so I didn't want to have to risk an out-of-round drill job.
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sphenicie


$200.....WOW......is that Cali dollars, or USD ? if thats the route you want to go, might i suggest that you INVEST in the tools, then you will have something for your money, as well as gettn your wheels on !

although you could certianly do the job freehand, you can get an OK quality benchtop drill press from 'northern' or 'harbor freight' for $65. the bits will be about the same...............

you save $70, get tools that you can use again, and a warm fealn for doing it yourself.



you can get a warm feeling by pissn' in your pants, but you will not have any tools to show for it.
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bbowens
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sphenicie
Aug 11 2012, 08:37 AM
$200.....WOW......is that Cali dollars, or USD ?
$200 is a lot; that's why I kept looking and found the studs.
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georandy
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Glad you found them.
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