Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Posted ImageWelcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are features you can't use and images you can't see. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Join our community!




Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Engine swap complete on 1994 1.0L - now it won't start!; Just swapped engines and now the car won't start.
Topic Started: Aug 4 2012, 07:58 PM (2,089 Views)
cwatkin


I just finished swapping a running engine to a 1994 Metro with a poorly-running engine (burned valves - one cylinder had no compression). I connected just about everything with a few minor exceptions and now the car won't start.

It seems I am getting no fire whatsoever, or at least I think it is fire. Maybe I am not getting fuel. The starter and engine turns over just fine but it seems like it isn't even trying to run. I noticed that the gas gage is reading zero although it has about a full tank, or did before I started the swap.

Here are more bits of info.

1. I have not put the timing cover on just yet and am going to check the timing again. If it was off, it would only be one or two cogs on the belt but it seemed to be timed correctly after I turned it over several times by hand.
2. I have the electrical connections for the alternator connected but have not yet installed the belt for the water pump or alternator. This was the next thing in line once I saw it start and run a few seconds.
3. I did something dumb as I removed the bad engine from the car. I didn't remove the battery as the very first step and I know better but just flaked out. I saw some sparks as I was pulling something, maybe the starter. I don't remember what I was pulling when I saw the sparks fly. Is there a possibility I fried something? If so, what would it be? For those who haven't been following my engine swap, I ended up with two identical cars. If I blew something with my stupidity, what would it be? I have pulled almost all electrical parts from the other car including the ECU. I was wondering about a fuel pump relay or something as the gage is reading empty.

Thanks,

Conor

Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Norby
Member Avatar


Can you hook up your spare ecu and see if it will run? Or, pop the cover off your current ecu and look for burn marks. I've seen and heard of many fried ecu's (mostly from working on Nissan and Infiniti cars) when sparks start flying.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cwatkin


I will plug in the spare ECU tomorrow and see what happens. It is getting dark and looks like it is going to rain again so I will see what happens then. I did pour a small amount of gas down the throttle body to see if it would fire and it did not. This is an ignition issue or maybe more.

Conor
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cwatkin


I am also going to see about the ignitor/ignition control module tomorrow before tearing into the dash. If all the lights and indicators show on the dash, does this mean the ECU is still possibly bad?

How about the coil? Could it be bad too?

Conor
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Norby
Member Avatar


Well, it could be a bad coil. But have you tested for spark? And have you tested for fuel reaching the injector?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cwatkin


I am going to start on more work tomorrow to see what is going on. I am pretty sure this is a spark and not a fuel problem. I also checked to see if my timing was 180 out.

I am just glad the hard part is done. The engine is now bolted down in the car and most everything is connected. Is there a possibility of something not being grounded correctly?

If I blew something, what is the likely culprit? Fire control module, relays, or what? I am hoping the ECM didn't bite it but maye that is it. I pulled all the fuses I know about, both under the dash and on the far left side under the hood and none were blown.

Conor
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cwatkin


I am starting to wonder about the timing too. I just happened upon http://geometroforum.com/topic/2232748/1/ and am wondering how I aligned my marks. It seems there are two notches in the cam sprocket shown here. I may have mine on the wrong timing mark but will take a look tomorrow as it is late and raining here. The engine I am working on now has the spoked sprocket like the one shown. The engine I have with burned valves has the solid design. Would there be an advantage to switching sprockets?

Conor
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Coyote X


If the engine you put in is a 96 up engine you need to put the 94 distributor back on it :)

Other than that pull a plug out and check to see if you are getting spark. It should backfire and act like something is happening no matter where the cam timing is set if it is getting fire.

if no spark check spark at the coil by sticking a screwdriver into the coil wire and holding it near something to ground it.

Get a test light or meter and check for power and ground at the coil(with all the plugs and wires hooked back up). Crank the engine and see if it is getting pulses like it is supposed to.

The pickup in the distributor might not be working, I can't remember how to test it. Maybe check for pulses coming out of it with a meter while cranking?

I don't think there is much else to check with the ignition. If it is getting spark I would try starting fluid or squirting gas down the throttle body to see if you can get it to do something.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Fuel injector fuse?
Quote Post Goto Top
 
clarkdw


If you have one spoked sprocket and one stamped steel sprocket the ign system on the cars is, in all likelihood, not the same. Are the throttle bodies identical? If not then you need to use all the parts from the car the engine is being installed in. The intake manifold, throttle body, distributor and ECM all need to match.

The cam sprockets changed sometime in 93, May I believe according to literature.
Both types of ign and throttle body were found on 94 cars. They were called regular emissions and "upgraded" or California emissions.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Memphis metro


Check the grounds at the back of the intake manifold and see if they are connected as well as the wire going to your distributor. The grounds on the back of the intake manifold are often the cause of a no start condition especially after engine work is done. l
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cwatkin


I am going to check all the suggestions here after eating my breakfast.

The one thing I find odd is the different cam sprockets. Why do I have different ones on two engines that are both from 1994 cars? I seem to recall ones of these cars was an early 1994 model made in 1993 (the one I am fixing up) and the other is from around the middle of 1994 (the one that I took the good engine from). The engine I am using also has 5 bolts on the crank sprocket to mount the pulley while the engine I took out has 4 bolts. Don't know exactly what is going on but I think they must have made changes during the model year. Is this a problem? All harnesses, connectors, etc. on the throttle body and intake seem to be identical.

Either way, I am going to check everything soon. I am also suspect there is not any spark as I would have expected sputtering, popping, etc. if the timing was off.

Conor
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
arollinstone
Member Avatar
On a Mission from God

You'll be fine, your close. Check your spark by taking off one of the plug wires and putting it on an extra plug then set it on any part of metal (ground), if there;s no spark I'd change the distributer (the whole thing).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
clarkdw


Which of these throttle bodies looks like yours? The difference is that one has 4 boltheads visible holding the throttle body to the manifold and the other has two boltheads visible and two hidden (shorter bolts). Are both yours the same? This is most important.


Four visible on this one
Posted Image

Two visible on this one
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cwatkin


The Geo Metro lives!!! I went out this morning and realized I had picked the wrong timing mark on the cam sprocket. I also pulled the distributor cap/rotor at the same time and they were NASTY. I was going to use the one from the other engine but it was just as NASTY so I took a screw driver and scraped as much of the crud/oxidation from the contact points and rotor as I could. I then cranked the car over and it started right up, even though it did run crappy. Since the water pump belt was not yet on, I turned it off immediately when it stayed running. I proceeded to put everything else back together and then fired up the engine.

It fired right up and began running on its own. I noticed a very loud ticking from the top end and was concerned but this got much better and finally went away after about 10 minutes of idling/running. I am not sure but am guessing that crud in one of the lifters may be to blame. I have some Marvel Mystery Oil in the oil and will change this in a bit after it has been run some more. I have started a cooling system flush and then poured some MMO through the TB and shut the engine off to let it soak for a bit. I then plan to Seafoam through the TB and let it run a bit more with the coolant flush in the system, then drain, flush a bit more with water, and then refill. I will do the oil change after that and start driving!

I picked up some full synthetic Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 for about $15 the other day and will run this for a while after I drain this oil. The current oil is a mix of cheap conventional 5W30, 10W30, and a little MMO. After I see the oil is clean, I will switch to the European spec stuff that Glenn is suggesting.

Plugs and a new cap/rotor are next!

By the way, both my TBI assemblies look like the on on top with the 4 bolts.

Thanks,

Conor
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Engine Tech & Diagnostics · Next Topic »
Add Reply