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Electro Metro; Lotsa pics
Topic Started: Aug 23 2012, 11:40 PM (15,557 Views)
evmetro


Nerys, I read on a different thread that you are looking at a sixty mile plus commute. The math on this stems from the fact that a metro typically consumes about 200 wh per mile at 55 mph. 60 miles times 200wh per mile = 12000, or 12kwh for your commute. you can run down your lithium pack 70 to 80% dod. (depth of discharge) which means that you need a pack that stores 14.5 to 17.5 kwh that you can deplete 70 to 80 % of. To determine how many kwh your pack holds, (kilowatt hours) you multiply the amp hours of the pack (mine above is 100ah) times pack voltage (number of 3.2 volts cells in series times 3.2 volts. mine above is 144) for 14.4 kwh. The beauty of the metro is that it is one of the VERY few vehicle that can run 200 wh or less per mile, and I am fine tuning (hypermilling) electric metros to do even better. I will post my watt hours per mile when Tevie1 is back on the road, and I believe that I can push this 14.4 kwh pack into the 70 miles plus range with a front bumper from a mold of the bumper from the Tevie1 EV. I am ready to share the many things that I do to lighten these cars and push the efficiency. The hands down mpg efficiency that metro owners enjoy so much is even more pronounced when you compare an electric metro to other electric cars. It is confusing because there are many misleading ways of advertising how many watt hours per mile EVs use, but if you passed general science in high school, you can see that the Metro clearly takes less energy to put into motion.
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nerys
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Grr

well I drive 45-50mph so that will help.

my commute is 54 miles "one way" and that is if I make absolutely no detours. I need 75 miles simply because what if I encounter traffic (more stop and go more watts without regen) what if it rains? winter when I must use some heat ? these all consume watts.

so what gets me 60 miles in warm sunny no traffic weather might not get me 60 miles once its 15' out slushy and I have to run the defrost and heat. see what I mean?

I THINK 75 miles would do it. I think that 20 miles extra is enough of a buffer to accommodate the above described issues. once I get to work I plug in charge up drive home charge up.

trust me. my "range anxiety" is legitimate not fanciful :-) I most definitely do not have your "typical commute" :-)

so what does that pack cost? what about the 200amp/hour pack? that should give me a solid 120miles right? more than enough when you factor in cold heat blowers lights etc..

I have no doubt with time and effort I could scrounge up enough over a year or two to afford the motor controller etc.. its the battery that is just not within my grasp.

then my other problem is the NIMH pack had good lifespan 300,000+ miles but the lithium packs I understand have a much much shorter lifespan. remember 40,000 miles a year minimum !! so a 150,000 mile pack will barely last me 3.50-3.75 years !!

I am not too concerned about weight/range since weight does not really effect range all that much unless your stopping and going a lot. my commute is largely "steady state" driving and I assume EV's adhere to the same type of physics as gas cars do. less accelerations means less fuel.
Edited by nerys, Mar 23 2013, 10:51 AM.
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evmetro


I would scrounge up the motor and controller and other parts first, and then get the latest and newest traction pack when you are getting close to completion if a lot of time is going to lapse. Lithium cells can sit on the shelf for a decade, but maybe there will be better and/or cheaper battery technology next year.

You are right about the weight thing if you maintain a pretty steady speed on flat ground, so aerodynamics would be what you would want to address. You would also not get as much out of regen brakes either.
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nerys
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Grr

so how much is the battery pack. I need a ballpark figure not a receipt quote.

we talking $2k $5k $10k $20k ?
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Cobb
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If it was closed Id buy it. Its a lot to make a car an ev. I knew a guy who did it and it was ten grand not counting hte labor. Granted with any used EV you will need to buy batteries, but even with a vehicle thats converted, its a big step in your dream.
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Hydrojim
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I think the key to electric range is not with the batteries themselves, but with the vehicles. Even with a metro, you're still trying to push around 2000 pounds and at highway speeds, the drag kills your energy needs.

The Edison2 VLC uses a 10.5 kWh battery pack and has a range of over 100 miles.
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Cobb
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Having drove a Leaf flat out took the most energy at posted limits. If you pulse n glide, coasted to a stop and all the hyper mile tricks it helped to extend the range. At one point I saw 103 miles on the range indicator. I dont know why, but its my experience a lot of the conversion do not have regen braking. I dont know if its too expensive or it the use of lead acid batteries the ennergy isnt capturable like with the other styles.
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evmetro


That lame nissan leaf thing is what is so sweet about a custom conversion. Kinda like the difference of a bad ass aftermarket sound system compared to an oem one. Instead of buying a lame leaf, spend the same for an EV built with nice aftermarket stuff and enjoy one that is not lame. Build the pack as big as you want it, add regen, make a quarter mile car. If anybody wants to see some real EV stuff that will get you excited, google (better yet youtube) the white zombie EV. I think he runs in the tens for his quarter mile. Not bad for a car that you can still take through the burger king drive through...
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Cobb
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:popcorn Ive been following the guy on ecomodder, the sgc and his conversation seems to be nothing but problems. Hes constantly working on it and just recently had to replace the electric motor, tranny, adapter plate, hes been through 2-3 heater setups. I am pretty sure at this point his payback is nonexistant with all the parts not counting labor he has put into the thing.

Hell, thats why I own a new car as I got tired of spending all my free time and 300 bucks a month at the auto parts store fixing it.
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evmetro


The metro in this thread looks to be a pretty hokey conversion and was probably troublesome like the one that you are speaking of. Probably like any other metro though where some are really hacked up, but then you have some that are built by really good techs like t3ragtop, geo glenn and a few others here. I feel like it is my duty to get this poor metro built correctly. I have read about other people having a world of problems with their conversions, but when you get in close, the coat hangers and duct tape usually tell the story.
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nerys
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Grr

you call it the "lame leaf" but there is one thing that makes the LEAF an awesome viable practical electric car while conversions are NOTHING but fairy tales.

financing. boom. that just kills conversions.

TYPICALLY (not always) people who have $15 grand to "toss around" converting a car to electric don't have to "worry" about the price of gasoline either :-)

I can't justify the leaf either. even if I got a 7 year loan at 0% that is still nearly $350 a month I just don't have.

with a NIMH pack that price would be worth it because I WOULD recoup my costs in fuel savings eventually but they only provide a 2.5 year warranty on the battery (100,000 miles so 40k a year is 2.5 years !!)

that is just too much of a gamble under those conditions
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evmetro


The people who converted this thing way back when chopped a huge hole in the floor to hold 1,000 + lbs of trojan flooded golf cart batteries. They made the battery "box" out of an old steel shelving unit, cardboard, duct tape, and everything else. Below the hippie box is stripped out and the steel box tubing structure is welded in place. This will all get skinned, and the new smaller battery box (all welded aluminum) will nestle into a spot designed just for it. I am going to maintain the flatbed theme that the car had when I got it.

Posted Image
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evmetro


This ride got some more love...

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It holds a spare tire now..

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and a battery box...

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Here is a view from the bottom...

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nemoskull
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what chemisty lithium pack are you using?
lipo, li-ion, Li-Fe?

i run lipos all the time in small rc planes. life is short.
i assum ur using Li-Fe.
at any rate, lipo and li-ion for bst life should not be run below 3.6 v per cell. tho damage does not occure till 3.0v per cell. but at 3.6v ur pretty much 'empty'

dont know much about Li-Fe.

a quarter mile car using Lipo cells would be awesome. less weight, more power on tap, lowest range.

looks very cool.
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evmetro


These cells are lithium iron phosphate, and they need to stay between 2.8 and 3.65 volts. I have purchased 6 cell log 8's from the rc plane industry to moniter the voltage of each cell, and to provide a signal if any one cell gets to high or too low in voltage. The signals were meant to sound a buzzer, but I will use them in conjunction with a relay to back off the throttle or shut down the charger.
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