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| Best way to prolong life of engine until rebuild?; Trying to keep it going another couple months and prevent valve burning. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 25 2012, 09:12 AM (1,376 Views) | |
| cwatkin | Sep 25 2012, 09:12 AM Post #1 |
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For those who have been following my threads, I have resigned myself to the fact that I need to rebuild one of my Geo Metro engines due to blowby issues in the engine in my car. I would like to prolong the life of the running engine in my car with the main goal of preventing valve burning during this time. I would like to pay a few bills off before tackling this and plan to have Glenn do it unless a cheap but GOOD replacement engine comes along. I had been having massive oil farting problems for those who have been paying attention. I seem to have solved this by adding some thicker oil but am worried this will cause sticky lifters and thus valve burning. I am pretty sure I was having issues with sticky valves due to deposits. Glenn was telling me that engines will become gutless and have rough idle on startup not long before burning valves. I was having the EXACT symptoms so I knew I was likely not far from a valve failure. I rushed out and warmed the engine up and gave it a good steam clean by running 16 oz of water through the TB at fast idle. This was done yesterday and greatly smoothed out my rough idle and brought back a noticeable amount of power on the road when driving. I am pretty sure that deposits had formed on the valve stems from all this oil burning. I had burned at least 2 quarts over 200 miles or so and know this can't be good for deposit formation. So, I have a tradeoff/balancing act of using thicker oil to prevent oil burning and thus deposits on the valves and possibly sticking lifters or burning oil with the specified 5W30. I have a large filter so my capacity is more than normal but have about 2 quarts of 10W40 in the engine at this time. If I am going to run a thicker oil, what should I use? Would 5W40 be better than 10W40? I know I am still burning some oil. What is the best way to control deposit formation? Unless someone here has a better idea, I was just going to do steam cleanings once a week or so whether or not I have rough idle/loss of power issues to control deposits and valve sticking. I figure I am on borrowed time but would like to keep it going just a little longer so I can pay for my rebuild free and clear. Conor |
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| idmetro | Sep 25 2012, 11:17 AM Post #2 |
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As I understand it 5W40 is technically thinner oil than 10W40. The first number is the viscosity when the oil is cold and the second is when the oil is hot... Personally I would consider running some Seafoam in the crankcase (yes some members swear by it and some swear at it) and considerably shortening my oil change interval as a possible way to get things a bit cleaner internally. Since deposits seem to be a big chunk of your issue I would pull the plugs and put a cup or so of seafoam into each cylinder and let it set at least a couple of hours, preferably overnight. Then put some rags over the plug holes, spin the engine to expel any of the liquid still in the cylinders, reinstall the plugs and go. With a little luck this treatment will help dissolve some of the carbon that has likely made a home in your oil rings freeing them up a bit and could help reduce the amount of oil you are consuming. Worst case you are out some time and the cost of a can of seafoam. I have heard of the steam treatment but never tried it myself although I have seen cylinders that have been "steam cleaned" from a head gasket failure and they look good. My caution would be not to go too fast as liquid is not compressible and you could wind up with damage you didn't expect if you get too aggressive... Other than that I would try to avoid working the engine hard as that is the condition when you are likely to get the msot blowby and the consequences from it (translate that to slow down and keep your foot out of it). Good Luck! |
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| snowfish | Sep 25 2012, 11:20 AM Post #3 |
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Basic GearHead
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I guess I'm not convinced that running thicker oil helps oil consumption. However you seem to have had decent results. Steam cleaning, once a week, is a little extreme. Not sure if that would cause more hard that good. But, again, you have witnessed positive results. Might want to wait until the car "tells you" it could use it again. ![]() Some Marvel Mystery Oil, between & before oil changes, may help you out too. Just because you're burning oil doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed.Actually the opposite is true. You need to change more often. An engine with a lot of blow by will contaminate the oil quicker. This will lead to more oil burning & further engine wear. Now take the following advise with a grain of salt..... I'd try a half tank of E85. That stuff burns really clean. Since alcohol has a good quantity of water, one's gently steam cleaning as you drive. And it's a great injector cleaner & fuel gauge sender cleaner. My gas gauge actually showed "full" with just a couple 1/2 tanks of E85. For a long time it would just read 3/4-7/8 full.My throttle body, and intake, are always nice and clean. Injector spray is a nice, fine, mist. However it Will clean the fuel lines too. Meaning crud, After the fuel filter in the rear, could potentially clog the injector. That's why is a Really Good Idea to put an in line filter by the throttle body. A $5.00 in line filter, by the throttle body, is a Great Idea for All Metros. Regardless if you're playing with E85 or not. Hope you can get you build accomplished more sooner than later. A Geo Glenn engine may be the most cost effective route to go in the long run. Everything that you need, and nothing that you don't.
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| cwatkin | Sep 26 2012, 10:46 PM Post #4 |
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Yeah, I would say that the thicker oil definitely helped with oil consumption. I am not talking about past the rings but "oil fart" oil consumption which was adding up quick and making obnoxious smoke. I knew it was bad when I could hardly see anything in my mirrors and the cars I could see were pulling over! As for steam cleaning, I am careful when adding water not to add too much too quick. I have firsthand experience with hydrolocking an engine. The happened on my third date with an ex-girlfriend. I was driving in my Chevy S-10 with the 4.3L V6 and took her through a pretty outdoor area. There is one place where there is always some water on the road and it is no big deal but it was raining this day. Just about the time I realized the water was a little deeper than I expected (a LOT deeper), the engine stopped. When I hit the starter, the engine was locked! So, I told her to wait in the truck and I got out with water lapping over the door sill. I took my jeans off and was in my boxer shorts. I removed all the spark plugs, cranked the engine over to blow the water our, and then put them back in. I figured the engine was done for but started right up and I drove it home. I then changed the oil and filter and seem to have suffered no ill effects from hydrolocking. They say these 4.3s are indestructable and I would have to agree. Someone also told me the best thing I did was get it going and burn the water out quickly. The GF was impressed! I thought she would dump me but my ability to solve the problem in the middle of nowhere seriously impressed her and I earned serious stud points for that one. I have done several oil changes with MMO and Seafoam but this hasn't solved my issue. I ran some ATF in the oil for a while and changed it again tonight after another steam cleaning. I figured why not as I was about to change the oil and some water always finds its way in. I have put it back to stock 5W30 and used O'Reilly Store brand full synthetic plus a Mobil 1 filter. This was only $2 more than a change of Castrol GTX and a store brand filter so I went with this. All O'Reilly oil is made by Coastal. There are no ACEA specs on the can but I figure why get the really good stuff for an engine I am likely rebuilding soon... I looked up the specs on the Coastal and it is GM Dexos so is this the same oil but without the payout to GM for the certification??? The old oil was dirty after only like 500 miles and several buddies smelled it and said "blowby" immediately. Seriously, I have seen the oil from my other vehicles come out a lot cleaner after 6000 miles between changes! My friends said the oil looked dirty and smelled of exhaust which is a good sign of blowby. A couple of these guys used to be mechanics and have seen a lot of cars. I wonder if the cylinder walls are scoured on this engine. The air cleaner housing had been rigged and dirt was bypassing. I found lots of sandy grit and dirt inside the TB/intake. Not good! I took the good air cleaner housing off the bad engine during the swap to fix this but I wonder if the damage had been done. I have run some E85 and did change my fuel filter. My gage still reads low most of the time so I might get some more E85. Several others have suggested mixing 30-40% E85 for clean valves. As for this engine I think it is just about done and I am going to limp it along but will consider some more to clean out the fuel system as well as the new engine. I think I am going to checkout a used engine this weekend. It is currently in a car and I could take it for a test drive. The guy only wants $250 for the engine and I plan to take a fresh change of oil and a filter to see how it runs on 5W30. I will probably do the same full synthetic and then drive it like I stole it! If it works out without smoke blasts, I will get it. If not, I will be out a $22 oil and filter change but know I tried. It sounds like Geo Glenn really knows his stuff and gets it down to an exacting science, likely more exacting than these little engines come from the factory. I am sure I could do it but attention to detail and experience are important in a situation like this. Conor |
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| shaydetree | Sep 27 2012, 08:01 AM Post #5 |
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New Member
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This is gonna sound crazy, But at the risk of sounding like a commercial I've had REAL good results on worn engines with Restore. It's easy, & it really does help with bringing back lost performance slowing oil consumption. Give it a shot, what's a few bucks?
Edited by shaydetree, Sep 27 2012, 08:11 AM.
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| cwatkin | Sep 27 2012, 11:06 AM Post #6 |
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I have heard others say this is a good product and have run years on engines that they thought were just about due for a rebuild and never needed to do the work as something else went wrong with the car before the engine. I may give it a try. As for the valves "sticking"... Once my car tells me it is needing something cleaned from the valves due to rough idle, loss of power, etc. am I not damaging the valves? I was thinking about steam cleaning BEFORE the symptoms show in order to prolong their life. Either way, I changed the oil last night and drove the car today. It is running really well and much smoother on the 5W30. I tried to make it oil fart but it didn't. Maybe some of this crap I put in the oil finally cleaned something. I ran the ATF in the crankcase for a while. We will see... Conor |
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| Deleted User | Sep 27 2012, 11:42 AM Post #7 |
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There's a couple of E85 stations in the Rolla area. Try using a 50% ethanol mix. Ethanol has 2 carbons per molecule. "Gasoline" has hundreds. I've been running E50 for tens of thousands of miles. My 167,000 mile, never overhauled G13 loves it. So did my G10 when I was running it. |
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| metromizer | Sep 27 2012, 11:56 AM Post #8 |
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My Toyota is an oil burner as well, and needs a rebuild. The rings are leaking and 'blowing by'. In my experience, Engine Restore does have a positive effect on reducing oil consumption. I also add a bottle of Chevron's Techron the the fuel about every 3rd or 4th tankful, to break up the oil deposits and keep 'pinging' to a minimum. I also use a heavier oil, Toyota calls for 5w-30 in my engine, I switched to 10w-30 about 30k miles ago with good luck. |
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| Cobb | Sep 27 2012, 12:22 PM Post #9 |
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BANNED
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I used the oil thickner stuff and just kept adding it. That was my main worry when I had a situation like that. I didnt worry about it not starting, I worried about running out of oil and throwing a rod. |
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| cwatkin | Sep 27 2012, 02:29 PM Post #10 |
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Yeah, I know of at least two E-85 stations in Rolla proper and there may be more. I may try running 50% until I get my oil burning issue resolved. My main reason for the thicker oil was basically the same. I didn't want to be a quart low almost immediately after adding oil so I bought store brand 10W40 to get home. I went back to 5W30 and it is smoother for now. I guess it can be an "in town" car only for a bit if it starts smoking on the highway. The oil usage isn't bad at slower speeds. I have to say I wonder about all the sand and grit I found in the air intake before I changed the filter and fixed the rig job from the previous owner. I am sure all that crud bypassing doesn't help at all. Conor |
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However you seem to have had decent results.
Not sure if that would cause more hard that good. 
This will lead to more oil burning & further engine wear.
That stuff burns really clean.
Since alcohol has a good quantity of water, one's gently steam cleaning as you drive.
My gas gauge actually showed "full" with just a couple 1/2 tanks of E85. For a long time it would just read 3/4-7/8 full.


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7:11 PM Jul 10