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| Gripe keeps a changing; Keeps popping codes | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 4 2012, 09:35 PM (642 Views) | |
| GeoHam | Oct 4 2012, 09:35 PM Post #1 |
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GeoHam
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I have a 96 Geo Metro LSI 1.3l TBI With 326000 original miles. No major engine repairs, I have replaced the clutch, oil pump, water pump, several timing belts, not because anything broke but at 200000 miles I thought I would do some preventive maintnance. The cam position sensor is the only item to crap out and leave me stranded (no advance warning at all, it just blew apart in the distributer cap) Well here is the situation blow by blow so far. Please help a brother out? My first situation: No codes MIL Off Engine at operating temp Fuel level at "E" I should still have at least 50 miles b4 running completely out of fuel. Engine starts and Idles normal 850-900 rpm. Reversing out of long driveway, no problems Taking off in first gear somewhere between 1200-1500 the engine starts to intermittently stumble. If I decrease throttle it resumes normal idle, if I increase and feather the clutch to maintain above 2500-3000 rpm the engine feels like I'm giving it full throtle. If I do give it full throttle if will begin again to stumble. Once reaching 55-65 mph it cruises fine. While it is stumbling I can see the Check Engine Light barely coming on and off. Using my scanner it sets a P0400 EGR Flow Malfunction. Steps I have taken after this was to remove the EGR valve and clean it. Wasn't in bad condition, no major carbon. I vacuum check it and it functions as advertised. I started the engine with the EGR not install and I have great exhaust flow out one hole in the manifold and great vacuum flow from the other hole. I cleaned them anyway with a wire cable and carb cleaner. No blockage to be found so I install new gasket, with existing EGR Valve. I also check all electrical connections for corrosion, no corrosion. All vacuum hoses look brand new still. With 20 in of vacuum at idle on the feeds from manifold. Put fuel in and went for a ride. Same problem. At this point I'm thinking maybe a false positive, sinse the code is pending and not a hard code. At this point maybe the TPS is going bad, so I take some reading with a meeter: Closed throttle .92v WOT 4.2v. my manual says it should be Closed .72 WOT 4.8-5.0v. I didn't like the readings so I remove it and check the full swing with an analog triplet meeter to see if there were any bad spots in the resistance. None found, nice and smooth I wasn't concerned with the ohms values. So I reinstalled and tried to get the setting as close to original as possible (what a pain)to adjusted the TPS. Started engine and the rpms wondered around for awhile and finally set many codes P0134 O2 no activity, P0400 EGR Flow, I reset and they came back. I hadent touched the 02 sensor at this point. So I tried to adjust the TPS with the engine running, I used the live data feature on my NEW SCANNER ( I bought for this problem because my old scanner was obsolete) Anyway I found that setting the idle % above 11 and below 14 gave me the desired idle rpm of 850-900 so I tightened the TPS and called it good. So here I go for a test run,,,,,this time I get even more codes while I'm driving attempting to complete the required drive cycles. After many miles at varying speeds, acc., decel., stopping, restarting.....etc. The monitors finally pass except for "EVAP" I notice a code set P0450 Evap Pressure Sensor....I checked the gas cap gasket looks fine and when I fueled the tank after driving it, It has plenty of pressure as I released the cap slowly (normal for my car) I'm at a loss Oh Mighty Wise Ones, Any help will be much appreciated. I'm thinking about dropping the tank and start replacing stuff. I haven't looked at it yet today. Is there anyway these problems could be related? I'm about to freak as the gripes keep changing. |
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| Woodie | Oct 5 2012, 05:40 AM Post #2 |
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Clean your grounds on the back of the intake manifold, should be about four wires connected here on two ring connectors. Best and most useful picture on GMF:![]() |
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| GeoHam | Oct 5 2012, 09:48 AM Post #3 |
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GeoHam
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Thanks Woodie, I'll check the grounds. Would it be a smart thing to replace the fuel pump and screen if I end up dropping the tank for any reason? I'm not sure how long they last. Mine has 320000 so far. |
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| Woodie | Oct 6 2012, 05:41 AM Post #4 |
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If you're dropping the tank anyway, yes, I'd replace them. I'd wouldn't do that just on a whim though, never seen a pump go bad myself.
Edited by Woodie, Oct 6 2012, 08:33 AM.
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| GeoHam | Oct 9 2012, 02:44 PM Post #5 |
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GeoHam
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I finally got some time to look at the grounds at the back of the TBI, but everything looks good, clean and tight. So I hooked up my scanner and turned the key, no codes and all monitors had completed except for the o2. I started it up and went for a short trip down the highway and back, running like new. I set there at a idle for a minute or two and my scanner beeped 4 times and the amber light for the emissions on my scanner turned green and I noticed that the o2 monitor had completed it cycle finally and I guess it passed. Funny it was running like crap last week and I haven't done anything to it....ghost? |
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| GeoHam | Oct 12 2012, 09:28 AM Post #6 |
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GeoHam
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Well the nightmare continues. I've gone full circle, well almost. Is it common for it to take many drive cycles for the monitors to complete? I'm having hell getting the o2 to complete. Both up and down stream o2 are new as of last week. |
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| Woodie | Oct 13 2012, 03:48 AM Post #7 |
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Yes, you need to meet specific conditions for the tests to complete. I think you have to drive over 50 mph for five minutes with the engine fully warmed up on three separate occasions for the cat test. |
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| GeoHam | Oct 14 2012, 08:53 AM Post #8 |
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GeoHam
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I spoke with my young Army Mech. Son the other day and he asked if I had checked the plugs.....Well I replied that they had to be fine because I had plenty of power and no miss, so they had to be fine...(silly me, I'm thinking sbc) Well after the code P0134 setting every time. I finally gave into his suggestion, and lo and behold there it was, my plugs has much wear, not much carbon, but deffinately needed to be replaced. So I did replace them, and like majic the o2 started functioning like it should. So I had to call and give him all the credit. It all started making sense after I thought about it. I'm driving it now trying to get the fuel to "E" again to see if the original gripe of stumbling/cutting out on take-off will return. I have put at least 130000 miles on the car without any repair, well until recently. I may have multible issues and/or one may be affecting the other systems to freak out too. I'll keep posting till I get it right. So far I'm $390.00 into it, which includes $200 for the Innova scanner. BTW the scanner works great. |
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| GeoHam | Oct 15 2012, 01:33 PM Post #9 |
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GeoHam
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WOOHOO!!! I got a green light on my scanner. So I guess to sum it up, it was the spark plugs all along. I was still having problems with it running the monitors this morning after many drive cycles so I decided to SeaFoam it for giggles and I was sitting in the drive holding it at 3000 rpm and after the fog cleared I hear beeps from the scanner and all monitors completed and the green light came on. I guess I should have started with the simple things first. Anyone have any recommendations on some wheels? I'll be buying tires and thought what the heck, might as well do something nice for the ol girl. |
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| GeoHam | Feb 14 2013, 05:23 PM Post #10 |
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GeoHam
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Here is some new information on my still sick Metro. I found the vacuum ports on the back of the engine by the firewall had hose that had collapsed. I replaced all the vacuum lines on the entire engine and thought that should have fixed the problem. Well it kinda did however I was in florida at the time and the fuel there really sucks. So it took 4 tanks of various fuels while driving back to Texas to finally pass all the monitors on my scanner. At that point I'm thinking again that is the problem,,,,bad fuel. Then today,,,,crap here is the p0400 back again. I have cleaned out all the ports with carb cleaner and I'm at a loss. I hooked up a vacuum gauge directly to the egr and it does move but won't hold any vacuum zero, zilch, nodda. I went and unhooked my egr from my chevy truck and did the same test on it. It opens the valve and holds about 5 inches of vacuum. Am I correct at thinking the egr on the metro is bad? |
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