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Concealed carry holster; Pocket holster
Topic Started: Oct 11 2012, 04:43 PM (2,583 Views)
HelterSkelter
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#1 Pizza Driver

Coche Blanco
Oct 12 2012, 03:07 PM
HelterSkelter
Oct 12 2012, 02:27 PM
Eric J
Oct 12 2012, 08:27 AM
Just curious if any of the doubters of Scoobs little "cute" gun are willing to stand in front of it and catch one of the tiny bullets it shoots.....I know that I'm not going to volunteer to take one for the team ;). Does everyone remember the massacre at Virginia Tech a few years ago.....one of the weapons that shooter was using was a Walther .22 and his wasn't even a .22 magnum and he took out a number of people.

On another note my Dad pocket carries a Kahr PM9 and absolutely loves that gun. They are pretty pricey but a very nice piece.



i would, let me show you why:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html


if you scroll down to the very bottom you can see the gun that scoobs has has been tested, i think that's it at least. the magnum ammo will not have much effect since the cartridge uses a powder designer to burn for the duration of a longer barrel it will only show a small gain in fps in the first inch, the purpose of the longer cartridge is so there is more powder still burning 20 inches down the barrel to continue the bullet's acceleration. there are custom ammos and self defense ammos that use very fast burning powder to increase fps in short barrel guns, but i haven't seen one for .22.

with all that said, the fps show for scoob's gun is less than a pellet gun that my little brother has shot me with, so i would take a hit from that gun, for some monies of course.

if you gotta use that gun, shoot them in the leg and run.

You really compare FPS like it matters?


yes, at some point it matters. when a light bullet, like a 40 gr 22 bullet drops down into the 500-600 fps range it's penetration and the characteristics that normally make it lethal (bouncing instead of deformation) are gone.

feetchermancj
Oct 12 2012, 06:33 PM
.22 was the choice of mobsters for the longest time. The old argument of "which caliber will kill you" is crap. The real argument is knockdown and stopping power. When I'm backpacking in areas where the are lots of people I carry a .22 mag. Sure a crackhead might still come at you after taking a .22mag round, but most people wont. I'm going to get a new 357 that I'll carry when I'm backpacking in the backcountry in cougar and black bear country. Now if my new 357 is the right size and weight to where it can be my all time carry gun then you bet your ass I'll carry it. I open carry because I'm not 21 yet, but another thing people don't think about at first is, will your 45 be concealable and comfortable for you to carry? Another thing is are you going to be able to afford to shoot your ccw enough to where you can operate/manipulate the weapon like its second nature? Just my 2 cents.



a 22 with a longer barrel will work just fine, a one inch barrel will not. a nice little .22 with a 3+ inch barrel is plenty strong enough for personal defense, i used to carry one like this.

the best modern caliber for concealed carry, in my opinion, is the .380 auto and the 38 special, they both have decent power and are very small.

as for what it comes down to, it's not stopping power or knockdown power, all guns can stop or knock down a target, what matter, and you can ask any experienced shooter (police officer, ex armed forces etc.) is shot placement.


most concealed carry weapons are not designed to be shot a lot, my keltec p3at is recommended by the factory and the police officers that carry it to shoot it 100 times to break it in and then don't shoot it unless i have to. if you are concealed carrying you should be experienced enough already to be comfortable with shooting.


btw .357 is a better man killer than a .45, at least according to corpses and ballistics testing.
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rmcelwee
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A while back when I was researching which mouse gun to buy I ran across a gun forum where a guy told a 1st hand story about shooting someone (bad guy was trying to kill a cop by smashing his head into the ground) point blank in the head with a 45. The bullet went under the skin, curved around the skull and exited. That is a pretty extreme example but it does show that luck has a little to do with it as well. Hopefully lady luck will smile on me if I ever have to depend on my 32acp. I carry a small light gun every day instead of a large heavy one "sometimes". A small gun in the pocket is always better than a hand cannon on the dresser at home.
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feetchermancj


HelterSkelter
Oct 12 2012, 11:56 PM
Coche Blanco
Oct 12 2012, 03:07 PM
HelterSkelter
Oct 12 2012, 02:27 PM
Eric J
Oct 12 2012, 08:27 AM
Just curious if any of the doubters of Scoobs little "cute" gun are willing to stand in front of it and catch one of the tiny bullets it shoots.....I know that I'm not going to volunteer to take one for the team ;). Does everyone remember the massacre at Virginia Tech a few years ago.....one of the weapons that shooter was using was a Walther .22 and his wasn't even a .22 magnum and he took out a number of people.

On another note my Dad pocket carries a Kahr PM9 and absolutely loves that gun. They are pretty pricey but a very nice piece.



i would, let me show you why:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html


if you scroll down to the very bottom you can see the gun that scoobs has has been tested, i think that's it at least. the magnum ammo will not have much effect since the cartridge uses a powder designer to burn for the duration of a longer barrel it will only show a small gain in fps in the first inch, the purpose of the longer cartridge is so there is more powder still burning 20 inches down the barrel to continue the bullet's acceleration. there are custom ammos and self defense ammos that use very fast burning powder to increase fps in short barrel guns, but i haven't seen one for .22.

with all that said, the fps show for scoob's gun is less than a pellet gun that my little brother has shot me with, so i would take a hit from that gun, for some monies of course.

if you gotta use that gun, shoot them in the leg and run.

You really compare FPS like it matters?


yes, at some point it matters. when a light bullet, like a 40 gr 22 bullet drops down into the 500-600 fps range it's penetration and the characteristics that normally make it lethal (bouncing instead of deformation) are gone.

feetchermancj
Oct 12 2012, 06:33 PM
.22 was the choice of mobsters for the longest time. The old argument of "which caliber will kill you" is crap. The real argument is knockdown and stopping power. When I'm backpacking in areas where the are lots of people I carry a .22 mag. Sure a crackhead might still come at you after taking a .22mag round, but most people wont. I'm going to get a new 357 that I'll carry when I'm backpacking in the backcountry in cougar and black bear country. Now if my new 357 is the right size and weight to where it can be my all time carry gun then you bet your ass I'll carry it. I open carry because I'm not 21 yet, but another thing people don't think about at first is, will your 45 be concealable and comfortable for you to carry? Another thing is are you going to be able to afford to shoot your ccw enough to where you can operate/manipulate the weapon like its second nature? Just my 2 cents.



a 22 with a longer barrel will work just fine, a one inch barrel will not. a nice little .22 with a 3+ inch barrel is plenty strong enough for personal defense, i used to carry one like this.

the best modern caliber for concealed carry, in my opinion, is the .380 auto and the 38 special, they both have decent power and are very small.

as for what it comes down to, it's not stopping power or knockdown power, all guns can stop or knock down a target, what matter, and you can ask any experienced shooter (police officer, ex armed forces etc.) is shot placement.


most concealed carry weapons are not designed to be shot a lot, my keltec p3at is recommended by the factory and the police officers that carry it to shoot it 100 times to break it in and then don't shoot it unless i have to. if you are concealed carrying you should be experienced enough already to be comfortable with shooting.


btw .357 is a better man killer than a .45, at least according to corpses and ballistics testing.
my .22mag I carry has a 4" barrel so I'm confident in it performance against a person. The problem with shot placement is adrenaline. I not saying everyone will but in the heat of the moment with adrenaline pumping, shot placement isn't going to be as easy as it is with paper targets. Now with the "only break in" your ccw in and then don't shoot it, that seems crazy to me. I spend more time on gun forums and talking to friends and family who conceal carry and most practice with that gun once a month. I go shooting at least 3-4 times a month and I'm 100% comfortable with shooting but if my sport/target gun is a glock 19 and my ccw is a ruger lc9 both guns are going to shoot differently. I've shot many glocks in multiple calibers and I'm pretty accurate with then. Then I shot a ruger lc9 and I have the worst grouping ever. All guns shoot different so I don't see why you wouldn't want to practice more with the gun you are protecting your life with. But if you feel comfortable not shooting you ccw then I respect that I just have my ways any you have yours :cheers Now on the .357 note, I agree with the better man killer than the .45. The .357 has the best one shot stop record out there.
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HelterSkelter
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#1 Pizza Driver

my .22mag I carry has a 4" barrel so I'm confident in it performance against a person. The problem with shot placement is adrenaline. I not saying everyone will but in the heat of the moment with adrenaline pumping, shot placement isn't going to be as easy as it is with paper targets. Now with the "only break in" your ccw in and then don't shoot it, that seems crazy to me. I spend more time on gun forums and talking to friends and family who conceal carry and most practice with that gun once a month. I go shooting at least 3-4 times a month and I'm 100% comfortable with shooting but if my sport/target gun is a glock 19 and my ccw is a ruger lc9 both guns are going to shoot differently. I've shot many glocks in multiple calibers and I'm pretty accurate with then. Then I shot a ruger lc9 and I have the worst grouping ever. All guns shoot different so I don't see why you wouldn't want to practice more with the gun you are protecting your life with. But if you feel comfortable not shooting you ccw then I respect that I just have my ways any you have yours :cheers Now on the .357 note, I agree with the better man killer than the .45. The .357 has the best one shot stop record out there.[/quote]

a 22 with that size barrel is a great gun for cc.

if you were to take a keltec p3at to the range ven once a month, you would have a broken or unreliable gun after not too long. small auto guns are not designed to be shot, nor do you need to shoot them that often. shooting any gun will do just fine. remember you are not going to be shooting at a target that is more than 15 feet away normally, you don't need to be able to drive nails with your shots just get a few of them on target.

i don't mean to knit pick your post to bits, but the one shot stop statistic is a poorly put together study. it's right up there with people claiming higher velocity will lead to remote wounding or that higher kinetic energy leads to tissue liquification. this is what i am talking about shot placement, you hit the torso, good. you hit the upper chest, great. you hit center of the chest, perfect. you just wanna group shots near where they will hit something vital. all the "knockdown" or "stopping" power in the world will not help you if you hit someone in a non incapacitating spot.

be wary of those people on the gun forums, lots of them have no idea what they are talking about , i left those a long time ago. if you want solid advice walk into your local police station, they have tons and tons of really great advice to give to you. i was recomended the p3at by a cop who says most of his cop buddies carry it off duty.
Edited by HelterSkelter, Oct 13 2012, 06:29 PM.
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feetchermancj


Call me crazy but, if my ccw cannot withstand being shot more 100 times I in no way would trust it to protect my life. I guess thats why I prefer steel over polymer and revolvers over autos. And I don't under stand why you are disagreeing with the .357 when I was just commenting on what you said. You have your ways and I have and I respect that. I'm just glad you're another person who believes in the 2nd Amendment.
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rmcelwee
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I've shot two cases of ammo (2000 rounds) through my Keltec P32. Not sure where this 100 round maximum is coming from. Also, the grip is made of polymer not the pistol internals. Wanting to carry around an extra pound of steel for CCW is not something that I would want to do.
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Coche Blanco
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Troll Certified

:gp
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Memphis metro


rmcelwee
Oct 13 2012, 09:27 PM
I've shot two cases of ammo (2000 rounds) through my Keltec P32. Not sure where this 100 round maximum is coming from. Also, the grip is made of polymer not the pistol internals. Wanting to carry around an extra pound of steel for CCW is not something that I would want to do.
That 2001 round that jams when a thug is shooting at you will be heck though!
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rmcelwee
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Probably won't happen. I break down the pistol from time to time for inspection. Keltecs have a lifetime warranty so replacement parts are free and pretty easy to get. I've never been asked for any info other than model# and address to send it. I've bought several used P32s and usually replace the springs and rod before putting them into service.
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HelterSkelter
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#1 Pizza Driver

i'm not saying 100 rounds is as much as you can, it's just whats recommended for a break in at minimum and it's not recommended to shoot those little guns a lot so i shot it the bare minimum amount of times. you can shoot your gun as much as you want and push it closer and closer to failing if you feel safe with that.

i had one where the plastic was broken and the slide was unable to stay on the frame. they are cheaply made, made from light materials and are not designed to be your range pal, they are designed to sit in a pocket.

also, not calling you a liar, but are you sure you put that many rounds through your gun? my ruger sp101 took 800 rounds before it needed to be sent to the factory for some work, my windicator has loosened it's lock up after 1000 rounds but is still ok, and my 22 needs to be replaced (for free by the factory) every 1500 or so rounds. i don't believe a gun like a keltec p3at or p32 could shoot that many rounds, i would have to see it to believe it.
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feetchermancj


rmcelwee
Oct 13 2012, 09:27 PM
I've shot two cases of ammo (2000 rounds) through my Keltec P32. Not sure where this 100 round maximum is coming from. Also, the grip is made of polymer not the pistol internals. Wanting to carry around an extra pound of steel for CCW is not something that I would want to do.
I wasn't saying you should only shoot 100 rounds. That was said by another member which blew me away. My .22lr/.22mag revolver that I carry, I've shot thousands of rounds through. There are a few reasons I'm willing to carry a few extra pounds. First of all, I want to carry a .357 because I will mostly carry for when I'm backpacking in black bear and cougar country. Second is I haven't found a polymer .357 with a 3-4 inch barrel. I want all the muzzle velocity i can get. Third reason is, recoil. With a round as powerful as the .357, weight helps with recoil. I'm not saying you're crazy for carrying a polymer frame pistol. I just prefer steel frames. Trust me, I know a steel frame .357 with a 3-4 inch barrel is a big ccw but its what fits my needs. I sacrifice size and weight for more power. Now if my ccw was only intended for two legged critters I would be carrying a much smaller gun. Once I have more money to buy a ccw for when I'm around the city/people I'll get a smaller gun but I spend more time in the woods so .357 is first on the list. Cougars aren't rare to see where I'm at. I'm actually waiting for a call back from the sheriff about a cougar thats been hanging around my property at night. For the past week my neighbor and I have been finding fresh tracks in the mornings.
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