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| High/Odd Idle...; I didn't mess with anything!! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 4 2013, 05:32 PM (2,185 Views) | |
| sarguy01 | Jan 28 2013, 06:29 PM Post #31 |
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Cleaned the stupid, already cleaned 2x intake bolts again. lt grn/blk is back down to a normal .07v. Good. TPS is still at 1.97v grounded to the lt grn/blk wire. It is 2.0v to battery negative. Not sure where to go next. Back to the garage... |
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| sarguy01 | Jan 28 2013, 06:44 PM Post #32 |
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Idle seems to be normal, except when I start it the rpm's go to 2900, then to normal. It doesn't hang anymore, either. So, what the *%(^&^ can be causing this low voltage to the TPS sensor?? Next step is to cut it by the ECM and check the voltage...I will rule out if the wire is bad.... |
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| sarguy01 | Jan 28 2013, 08:25 PM Post #33 |
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This car is killing me. I cannot figure it out and I am done dealing with it. Don't be surprised if it goes up for sale soon. I love working on cars and love fixing them. I hate spending hours and hours in my garage, with my family inside the house, trying to troubleshoot a problem that I have no idea what is caused by. I have spent too much time chasing wires, untaping harnesses, checking voltage, etc, etc, just to get NO WHERE! The lt grn/blk wire is back up to .8 volts. Grounds have been recleaned, AGAIN!!! Yes, I may be a little dramatic right now, but hey, I am pissed. I don't want to go back in the garage to look at this car again and tomorrow I am going to need to find a ride to work. Edited by sarguy01, Jan 28 2013, 08:33 PM.
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| clarkdw | Jan 28 2013, 09:20 PM Post #34 |
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Why can you not drive the car as is? If you really don't like the high idle then wait till it drops to the proper rpm and then disconnect the ISC. That will lock the ISC position. You will have very low start up idle but it will come up as it warms up. Lock the idel a little higher than normal and it will compensate for lights, fan, etc. I know when it is your daily driver having problems it sucks but don't forget that this is far from a new car and it is saving you a LOT of money. Get a good nights sleep take a fresh look at it tomorrow or get drunk tomorrow and leave it for a day.
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| sarguy01 | Jan 28 2013, 10:13 PM Post #35 |
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Right now, the car is too taken apart to drive. The ECM is sitting, hooked up, on the air cleaner...hehe The idle is normal, right now. It is unpredictable once the car starts driving as the ECM has no idea what the TPS is doing...the idle has a mind of it's own once the car starts moving... The car was saving me money when I was driving it, now it is not just sitting in the garage. I am afraid to drive it as I have no idea what is going to wrong next! Tomorrow is a no go. I am not spending another night in the garage having no clue what to do. Tonight, in no particular order, I did the following: Grounded the body of the ECM to batt neg Unhooked all sensors on engine and checked the lt grn/whtwith no change. Cleared ECM codes, checked again, same 1.97v Cleaned the grounds, 2x. Still have new, homemade grounds running from batt neg to back of throttle body, junction box Ran up to warm in the garage, checked again Checked TPS voltage from closed to open, 0v-3.9 or so. Supposed to be 0-5v but since I don't have the correct voltage coming out I can't expect this to be correct Unhooked DRL module Clipped headlight fix wire Shook every part of the wiring harness I could reach while watching the volt meter for changes Cut the lt grn/wht wire at ECM plug to check voltage and make sure wire wasn't grounding/shorting Tried it without diode module hooked up Yes, those are all guesses. I don't know what else to test though!!! Again, thanks for staying with me! Any other thoughts on what this could be?? |
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| clarkdw | Jan 28 2013, 11:32 PM Post #36 |
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Tomorrow I will measure the range of voltage on my TPS from closed to WOT. How the heck did you get the ECM hooked up out at the air cleaner??? Did you pull out the entire harness? When I was doing extensive troubleshooting on mine I made several tpin and alligator clip extension wires so I could leave the ECM at least close to its' home. Edited by clarkdw, Jan 28 2013, 11:34 PM.
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| sarguy01 | Jan 29 2013, 07:57 AM Post #37 |
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The ECM is sitting on the air cleaner, but that was after 3.5 hours of troubleshooting with it in its normal spot. Yes, the harness comes right though the firewall. I did use T-pins. I pulled the harness out to get a good look at all of the wires. Yep, they all look like wires, no rubs, kinks, etc. I am not going to check each one with the meter. I don't have the patience for that. Last night I checked, with a T-pin, the voltage at the ECM for every sensor. They were all normal values according to the FSM. So, what left to test? Why is my ECM not showing the correct voltage for this wire? Could it be two bad ECM's?? Seriously, seriously doubt that. Is there something wrong that fried the first ECM, that I didn't know/fix and then hooked up/fried my second ECM?? Is there some other ground underneath the dash that I can check? I am running out of options, fast. This car is not going to take up all of my free time. If I can't fix it soon, I am getting rid of it. |
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| sarguy01 | Jan 29 2013, 01:50 PM Post #38 |
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Tonigh the car is going back together. Once it is back together, I might say F the feeler gauges and try to get the TPS reset, even though that one wire is showing the incorrect voltage. Right now it is set at .98 volts with .14" feeler gauges, cold. I may also strip the insulation off of the ECM ground wires and run them right to the batt neg, just to see if somehow my grounds are still not doing their job. I can't see how, but hey, anything is possible. Any other random thoughts?? |
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| sarguy01 | Jan 29 2013, 09:51 PM Post #39 |
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Found a break in the insulation on the ECT sensor wire. Fixed it, also found that the ground wire's and the signal wire's insulation was broken at the plug. I cleaned the grease off and covered the breaks in liquid electrical tape. Lt grn/blk wire still at 1.97 volts... Pulled half of the ECM harness out from under the intake manifold, checked some more spots for bad wires, taped it all back together, 1.97 volts. Put the rest of the car back together, started it, RPM's shot to 2800 on startup and were bouncing around, but lower. Shut off car, no MIL or codes. 1.97 volts... Grabbed the feeler gauges, used .12 and set the TPS to 1 volt. Started car, sounded perfect, shouted no *^&^%ing way, shut off car, 1.97 volts... Put car back together, started again, perfect, drove 10 miles. Got the engine nice and hot, idles normally with headlights on, fan on, headlights off, etc, etc...1.97 volts....but who cares, the car runs, and well!! So, did I need to go through all of the pain of replacing an ECM, chasing wires, etc? No. Do I feel a little dumb?? Of course! But, why the heck is that wire still 1.97 volts????????? Is the FSM wrong? I don't care as long as the car continues to run correctly!! It isn't getting sold, but my Geo "fun O meter" needs to be recharged before I go in the garage to work on it again, if that makes any sense at all. |
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| clarkdw | Jan 29 2013, 10:06 PM Post #40 |
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Great that you got it working as needed. The 1.97 v is a head scratcher. It would not be the first thing I have found wrong in the FSM. When troubleshooting a non-functional mpguino on razr769's car, the manual said that the vss sensor in the dash required B+ voltage but in fact it was ECM sensor signal voltage (5v) that was really needed. When I set my TPS I ended up doing exactly what you plan. I started with a base setting of 1.0v and then tweaked it a little over a period of days. If you do not get it in the "sweet spot". The idle consistency will be temperature dependent. I think that I have found a spot in my setting that seems to stay stable except in extreme cold when I suspect that a sticking throttle cable may be the culprit. I know how you feel about taking a rest from slogging on the Metro. Family time is important too. |
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| sarguy01 | Jan 30 2013, 07:25 AM Post #41 |
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Well, drove it to work this morning. Again, it was fine. I don't want to say all is well and jinx myself!! But, for the time being it is running better than it has since I got it. The idle doesn't hang, it is steady, the rpm's don't shoot to 2500+ on start up, so I am calling it good. Clarkdw, thanks for staying with me on this one. It is nice to have someone I have never met helping out!! |
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| Jittney | Jan 30 2013, 03:47 PM Post #42 |
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Anchorage 92 XFi
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Glad to hear you are driving it. Yes, clarkdw is a fine member
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and leave it for a day.
2:29 PM Jul 11