Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Posted ImageWelcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are features you can't use and images you can't see. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Join our community!




Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Valve problems; May have found our problem
Topic Started: Feb 13 2013, 10:16 PM (2,518 Views)
wildhair


I replaced my valves with (standard valves) when I rebuilt my motor and they burned out in 30K miles. :shit
I checked the PCV valve, the EGR system and pasages and every thing else I could think of.
Every thing functions as it should.
I did notice my fuel injector wasnt spraying right. While waiting for a new one I did some research and found this. http://www.jeffsgeometro.com/geo-metro-fuel-injection-service.html
Im pretty sure this is what is going on with my car and may be the primary cause of our valve troubles with this little engine.
Please let me know what you guys think... :hmm


An old injector that has not been serviced every 30,000 miles or two years will be with out question 50% plugged. Lucky for Geo Metro owners the injector is fairly large for the Horse Power of the engine and it will cruise around just fine to about this point. The real issue is not the spray pattern. Though a good spray pattern goes a long ways to good mileage. Our main Geo Metro Issue here is that under full load or full throttle the car is not getting the enough fuel and the cylinder is going lean and this is what leads to burnt exhaust valves.
Let me explain what is happening here as most people are very unclear. The exhaust gas temperatures (EGT)are controlled by fuel mixture alone. the more fuel you add or the richer the mixture the fuel is will cause the EGT to go down. to low and you get bad gas mileage and start to get back fires that blow the mufflers off. To lean or not enough fuel causes the EGT's to rise and cause the exhaust valves to burn or actually melt. A good rule of thumb is a perfect fuel mixture of 14.7 to 1 air to fuel ratio will give you about 1000 degrees give or take about 4" from the piston in the exhaust manifold. It takes very little to alter this temp by hundreds of degrees either way. Keep in mind aluminum pistons like to start to melt around 1400F.
So when your injector is just plugged enough that the computer can not feed enough fuel to the cylinders as your full throttle accelerating on to the free way or going over the mountain pass it turns those valves red hot. They don't burn the first time (they can) but repeated every day on the same drive will cause you to need a engine rebuild prematurely no matter how new that engine is. The biggest issue is that the lean code in the computer system wont turn on if it just see's lean for a few seconds at a time. Also or in fact the lean code is almost never signaled to come on unless the car virtually wont move and it usually at this point is not plugged injector/s its the fuel pump failed and usually comes with a 02 sensor code.
Fuel injection cleaning $127.80 plus $18.57 for the chemical. Also note this is part of the tune up above and is part of that price. The tune up is by far the better way to go than just an injection service unless it simply doesn't need a tune up and this is required.

There is no advantage to doing this more often that 24 months or 30,000 miles. But be assured every time it is do to be done it really cleans up the spray pattern.

I have been doing this service for so many years. It makes no difference where you buy your fuel. Do not be misled by fuel company's deceiving adds. I tear as many motors down and do injection services as any one and the fuel brand you use doesn't even factor into how clean your system is. The best Chevron fuel looks just like the cheap AM/PM fuel.

If your using fuel with alcohol at 10% expect to get 10% less MPG. Your car runs on unleaded not alcohol. If your using just unleaded fuel expect to get normal mileage.
Here is the flip side of the coin. If straight unleaded costs more than 10% more which it usually does. Then its actually a better deal to buy the cheap fuel and get the lesser MPG.
This may be changing as prices at the pump ramp up so look every once in a while. Its not always the MPG in the end its the over all cost were fighting.

Oxygenated fuels--there a non issue. Years ago when they switched to them the fuel company's started adding chemicals that helped keep the systems clean. All the gunk washed from the fuel tank to the filter a few times or lets say 3 times over say 3 years and it was every time they switched to the oxygenated fuel. People's that was so long ago there isn't a car out there that hasn't run 10 years with it and you'll never notice it. If your part of generation X you've probably never heard of it and or drove a car that was not run on it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Memphis metro


How much improvement did you notice with your new injector? Just curious, where did you purchase another injector at? I believe Jeff is right. These metros will run with a partial restricted injector but they do not run optimal. I would venture to say hardly anyone has cleaned their injectors other than maybe adding something to the gas tank. Because they run, people do not believe they have a problem. I have noticed significant engine performance improvements on every one of my metros that I have cleaned the injectors on. It really does improve these three cylinders.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
wildhair


GB Remanufacturing 841-17113 Fuel Injector from ebay for 37.00 shipped they only had 2 available so Im sure they wont last long.
As bad as mine was running I figured I would give one a shot.
The spray pattern is awsome compared to the one I took out.
I have no real way to test the flow rate or anything scientific like that, just looks tons better.
As soon as I get the head back together with ss valves I can give more info on the injector.

Dude I just noticed You were the one who posted the info on the injectors.... greatly apreciated. It would have sucked to redo the
valves just to have them burn out again. I wish you the best with your injector cleaning venture. Im sure it will be apreciated by
many of the members.
Edited by wildhair, Feb 14 2013, 08:14 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Car Nut
Member Avatar


Cheapest one I see is $71
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
wildhair


They only had two at this price so dosent look like they lasted long....sorry.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Woodie
Member Avatar


That's a sweet deal on an injector. Don't throw your old one out. Send it to one of the injector cleaning services. If you don't want a spare, just send it to them to use as a core.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Chip
New Member
[ *  * ]
As of right now..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GB-Remanufacturing-841-17113-Remanufactured-Throttle-Body-Injector-/400414199232?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AGeo%7CModel%3AMetro&hash=item5d3a8bcdc0&vxp=mtr
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Memphis metro


Chip
Feb 15 2013, 02:19 PM
You cant beat that. Only one available.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Chip
New Member
[ *  * ]
The second one is gone… Kind of interesting; there are at least half a dozen more with the exact same ad at twice the price. Two of ‘em at least from the same vendor… Whataya’ suppose is goin’ on?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JellyBeanDriver


$27.79 on RockAuto for the same injector, $35 core charge.
Don't know if they pay for the return shipping.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
mikeallen2112


Nice
Edited by mikeallen2112, Feb 17 2013, 02:35 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
wildhair


$27.79 on RockAuto Sweet deal.
You almost cant aford not to replace your old one with a fresh one. :thumb
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
wildhair


Ive taken the head off and the valves are toast.
Waiting for new ss valves and bronze guides from 3tech.
What is the best way to remove the old guides and replace with new ones.
I have to admit Ive never had to do this before.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

The best way?

Take your new parts and $100 to your local machine shop on Monday. Pick up your head on Friday.

Make sure to clean your valve lifters, or get some new ones.

Quote Post Goto Top
 
wildhair


10-4 on the lifters :thumb
but Im kinda a do it your self guy.
Hate the thought of having some one do something I could do myself.
I know some things should be left up to the pros but was hoping none the less.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Learn More · Register Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Engine Tech & Diagnostics · Next Topic »
Add Reply