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| Minimum Wage? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 13 2013, 11:14 PM (2,137 Views) | |
| dayle1960 | Feb 15 2013, 07:31 PM Post #46 |
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Fastest Hampster EVER
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I wish the minimum wage was $3.25/hr. At that rate, folks would be jumping at the chance to improve their lot in life. (also, I would do away with ANY government hand-out). Cold hearted you might think of me, no, just wish folks would wake up and realize that THEY are the ones who make the choices on how to live their lives............government should not play a role.(except for a few cases like kids with debilitating diseases and their family is flat out broke) If a widow woman needs help, then her church should lend a hand. Oh, you might say, she is an atheist and doesn't want to support the church....... What about homeless Henry. Shouldn't he get a handout from the government..???? Nope.....he wanted to be homeless....he should get what he deserves. How cruel is my opinion to the beliefs of others? I don't know, but after reading the bible, I believe that man should worship the Lord. Then he should take care of those who need help. i.e. little old ladies and crack heads. But up to a certain point. If those folks cannot see the error of their ways and turn to Him, then they should be cut off. Ahh, you say, that is where the government comes in to save the day. Nope. Government is represented of my decision to put the office seekers in office to do my bidding. If I say no money should go out of the treasury to feed malcontents, then the money should not be spent. The widows, orphans, and crackheads should then rely upon the church or other non-government funded organizations for support. But then again, this in in a "perfect" world. And as a Christian I realize that the world I live in is a fallen world and the path to the Lord is strewn with a lot of thorns and rocks. We need to love our neighbors, but not let them walk all over us to get a free handout. We need to be compassionate to their needs, but show them how to work to feed themselves. We need to make fishers out of all men. I wish I could help every person who is in need out of their predicament, but that is impossible. I wish every widow woman who needs help can find it. I hope God lays a helping hand on everybody's shoulder. \ |
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| nerys | Feb 15 2013, 11:18 PM Post #47 |
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Grr
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there is such a thing as a choice that is not a "real" choice. where there is no alternative but to operate in the system before you then it is still theft. Just because you "defactor" compel me to agree to the theft does not diminish that it is in fact theft. Just like paying wait staff under minimum wage and then stealing their tips and pretending its "wages" is also THEFT. just because they effectively have no choice but to agree to this process does not diminish that its theft. in fact because its legal it makes it WORSE than theft. it makes it treason (for the politicians that permit it) and criminal and extra heinous for the ones that partake in taking advantage of said rules. SECOND. I am sorry for getting steamy with you. it was not called for. I still think I am right but that does not excuse bad behavior even in just words. The original aspect of this discussion is that a person can not live off minimum wage (go check in the previous threads) MY counter was that it was NOT the minimum wage that is the problem minimum wage of $7 an hour (thats what it was a few years ago when I first started along this line of thinking) but the usury and taxation that is the problem. this is proven simply enough. remove the taxation and usury and suddenly $7 an hour is PLENTY of money. but if you double minimum wage the problem does NOT abate as everything gets more expensive and your taxes will go UP. will prices go up if we eliminate usury and direct taxation. absolutely. but under my system as in most civilized states "NECESSITIES" are not taxed because they still recognize that as "slavery" so things like food and basic needs and clothing are not taxed. so if prices go up too much I can simply elect NOT TO PURCHASE more than the absolutely minimum that I need. now prices must either come down or they go out of business. government then MUST lower taxes to spur consumer spending and they therefore MUST live within their means. that is the whole POINT. when I say 10% I mean 10% actual. not 10% APR. I consider APR's to be borderline criminal in nature and downright criminal when it results in usurious interest rates actual. APR's should be eliminated for ANY lending that uses the fractional reserve banking system. I don't know about you but consider 10% of 200,000. that is 20,000. for doing essentially NOTHING. even if it takes you 15 years to get your $20k that is still $20k for almost NOTHING. it cost you nothing but a few pieces of papers and an employee to write it up for all intents and purposes. if it was ONE loan I could see an issue with that but when its MILLIONS of loans the issues resolve itself when the system is designed efficiently and fairly. why do you think these people are SO god awful rich. because they are flat out criminally GOUGING us and our politicians do nothing because THEY profit from it. |
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| nerys | Feb 15 2013, 11:22 PM Post #48 |
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Grr
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dayle I kind of agree with you but your system and ideals CAN NOT WORK. because if you lowered the minimum wages to $3.25 they would NOT lower the taxes or usury. in a PROPER system with NO direct taxation of an individual at all (income tax is fine since that is indirect but no property tax no school tax no wage tax no ss tax (optional) no medi tax and no matching tax no state tax no local tax and no sales tax (as a seperate charge build it into the price at the product/service level) and then remove usury from the system. DO THAT and yes I think a $4 an hour minimum wage COULD in fact work and it would greatly expand the work force since employer's could afford to HIGHER MORE. as it stands your statement of raise your lot in life is foolish when the FACT remains that there are 5 unemployed people for every single available job. that means 4 out of 5 people seeking work nationwide "CAN NOT GET A JOB" no matter how hard they work or how much they try or how diligent they are. there simply is NO JOBS for them. period. until you have more jobs than people such processes CAN NOT WORK. |
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| Horn | Feb 16 2013, 12:04 AM Post #49 |
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So what is a fair yearly interest rate to you? Do you not agree with charging 10% apr.....or 10.471% apy on a loan? You think the 10% should be over the life of the loan? If so, that would have to be applied to investments/retirements. You would never be able to retire. If you only get 10% total over 15 or 30 years, then you wouldn't give out a loan. If I give you $100 now and you give me $110 in 15 years....well, i'm not gonna loan you that money. The inflation alone would mean the person giving out the loan would actually be losing money. They are earning $20,000 due to loaning it out. not due to nothing. I mean, they are doing no real work. At the same time, they can't take that money they loaned you and do anything with it. Heck, they could take that $200,000 and decide to purchase a business with it and get a better return. than just $20,000 over 15 years. |
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| nerys | Feb 16 2013, 12:50 AM Post #50 |
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Grr
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there is a HUGE difference between giving $100 for $110 over 15 years and giving $200,000 of NOT YOUR MONEY over 15 years and making $20,000 for doing essentially NOTHING but some paperwork and collecting the cash. in my system INFLATION would cease to be such a problem!! Our usurious taxation system and over spending to max the return on that usurious system IS WHY we have the inflation we have. they can't HAVE that money without my signature so they could never "do" something else with it anyway. what part of THEY ARE NOT USING THEIR OWN MONEY is not getting through Horn. if they give out just 100 $200,000 loans a year for 15 years that is a return of TWO MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR OR THIRTY MILLION DOLLARS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for doing essentially NOTHING and risking almost NOTHING especially since the INTEREST is paid first they get their "profit" back in 18 months tops after that my payments go to resolve the 9:1 fractional back to zero ie the principle. PLEASE go read some info on how our fractional reserve banking system works. I KNOW your a smart critter you just don't get how this system works. IT IS NOT THE SAME AS HORN 2007 Loaning Nerys $200,000 of his own money. IMAGINE if you could leverage the Federal Reserve at ALMOST NO COST to yourself (relative to the BILLIONS your raking in). and you loaned me $200,000 of SOMEONE ELSES MONEY but YOU got to keep the $20,000 in interest earned and you get that back in 18 months. THINK about that for a moment. if you want to loan your OWN actual money you should be able to set ANY TERMS YOU WANT. I have no quarrel with that. but when your leveraging the PUBLIC'S MONEY (fractional reserve system and the american dollar) the system should be FAIR and comensurate to the LACK of risk your taking. on top of that HOUSING LENDING is virtually ZERO RISK (self inflicted risk DOES NOT COUNT!!!) the home is not going away and its always INSURED. Edited by nerys, Feb 16 2013, 12:54 AM.
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| Horn | Feb 16 2013, 01:00 AM Post #51 |
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Nerys, you do know that the banks were actually selling these loans to the big banks who were turning them into securities, hence the crash of 2008 I understand fractional reserve banking. I understand that they can loan out a high majority of the money that is deposited. I don't get how it is "evil" (i know you never said that). I see that as smart....to a point. |
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| nerys | Feb 16 2013, 01:34 AM Post #52 |
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Grr
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exactly my point. Housing is secure the crash was SELF INFLICTED so it does not count., NO that is your mistake horn. that is what they "TELL" people actually they don't tell anyone that they IMPLY IT. banks DO NOT LEVERAGE the money on deposit for loans. this is FICTION. it has not been done like this for a very long time. The money on deposit has absolutely NOTHING to do with the money they loan out. at all. they maintain some "quotient" of percentages only to retain the public perception that this (leveraging the depositors money) is how it works. it does NOT. and it IS evil. Usury is VERY evil. not fraction reserve banking. FRB is very logical and has great value. the great expansions of Britain and the USA in their earlier years could never have happened without FRB. its quite a valuable tool. but when its abused with usurious interest rates. THAT is evil because it ALWAYS leads to the downfall of a society. always. every single time. without fail. |
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| Horn | Feb 16 2013, 02:03 AM Post #53 |
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I think the interest rates are reasonable but they (the banks) should make sure it is realistic that the person can afford to pay it back. I also put it on the people to not sign a contract when there is no way they can pay it back. (they might not understand the contract, but still need to understand what they are signing). Just the banks didn't care who got the loans because they were already sold as people were signing the papers and turned into securities. I'm not sure if the frank-dodd act changed that or not. Was gonna read up on it but haven't yet. |
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| Old Man | Feb 16 2013, 03:32 AM Post #54 |
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you two can fuck up any thread, no matter what it is about |
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| Horn | Feb 16 2013, 04:10 AM Post #55 |
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yea because this thread was really going somewhere. Edited by Horn, Feb 16 2013, 04:12 AM.
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| nerys | Feb 16 2013, 09:49 AM Post #56 |
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Grr
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you think paying 85% to 140% interest with almost NO risk and using almost none of your own money is fair ? really? |
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| Horn | Feb 16 2013, 04:22 PM Post #57 |
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I think its smart. I dont think a consumer should get the benefit of a 200k loan for 15yrs and barely pay $1000 a year for it. I see how your example would stimulate the economy but supply would be less than demand. They would raise the interest to even this out |
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| Cobb | Feb 16 2013, 07:22 PM Post #58 |
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BANNED
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You get a gold star. Banks dont care about the loan, just the rights to "service" it.
Edited by Cobb, Feb 16 2013, 07:22 PM.
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| Horn | Feb 16 2013, 11:21 PM Post #59 |
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........I just watched 5 separate 1 hour videos on the banking crisis and all that for my finance class.Very interesting! |
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| nerys | Feb 17 2013, 01:10 AM Post #60 |
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Grr
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ding ding ding cobb gets it. pure scam one end to the other. |
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You get a gold star. Banks dont care about the loan, just the rights to "service" it.

9:21 AM Jul 11