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| Prius vs Geo Metro Argument | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 14 2013, 02:15 PM (4,227 Views) | |
| shaft | Feb 14 2013, 02:15 PM Post #1 |
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I apologize if this has been posted before, but its good entertainment. http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2011/03/08/prius-vs-geo-metro/ |
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| Coche Blanco | Feb 14 2013, 02:27 PM Post #2 |
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Troll Certified
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I just found that recently too, here is my comment: "Jake says: Don’t be a dumbass." February 4, 2013 at 6:42 pm |
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| Horn | Feb 14 2013, 03:01 PM Post #3 |
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Good post in the comments, they are arguing over the cost of a geo vs a prius. Someone responded that you can swap the drive train out in a few hours for the metro. and how working on the geo 2 - 4 hours a month. (mine, has probably averaged to 1 hour a month due to trans swap which was not needed and other work) They compared the 2-4 vs a $350 car payment. The writer mentioned that an hour of HIS time was worth $75. So it is safe to say that he makes $75 an hour......No wonder he doesn't understand a geo.... |
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| Mythstae | Feb 14 2013, 03:04 PM Post #4 |
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Yeah, I was reading comments until just after that, Horn, when somebody said if they weren't mistaken, Toyota made the Geo. Then I left. |
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| Old Man | Feb 14 2013, 03:26 PM Post #5 |
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me too---and that comment was from one of the admins
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| nerys | Feb 14 2013, 06:03 PM Post #6 |
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Grr
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this is what I posted. lets see if they let is appear :-) I only care about ONE THING in a car. the 10 year TRC. TRC is Total Real Cost. the prius is one of the more expensive cars you can buy when you factor in TRC. the Chevy volt is the most expensive car I have yet calculated ($98,500 10y TRC) nothing can touch the metro except possible the new 5 star crash rated 3 airbag 84mpg $6800 Elio Motors car coming out next year. lets look at just how “BAD” a deal the toyota prius is. #1 you can NEVER save money driving a prius except maybe a NY Cabby. #2 its not even remotely efficient since YOU MUST factor in the disposable battery (which makes it FAR more polluting than a metro because now you have the battery AND thousands of gallons of fuel !!) BTW 47mpg my butt. I AVERAGE 60mpg with my XFI 55 winter 65 summer and I can hit over 70mpg if I get E0 on the highway. Slow? how fast do you NEED. passing? why are you passing? if your going for savings YOU NEVER PASS your already going to fast if you need to pass. you REMOVED yourself as a valid entry in this argument by even mentioning “passing” if there are multiple lanes of travel I AM DOING 5 below the limit and I MAX at 60 no matter what the speed limit is unless I am semi surfing then any speed is game usually around 75mph) I “detuned” my xfi EVEN MORE with larger tires to decrease my cruise rpm’s I plan to remove both the alternator and water pumps (jus the belt) and add an electric water pump and a second deep cycle battery. this should net me another 5mpg to my average. (its a hobby) I have not even touch aerodynamics yet. NOW lets compare some TRC’s of modern cars. 51mpg Prius against 42mpg Elantra. Purchase price with interest and finance charges. Prius $24,000 so $36,000 Elantra $15,000 so $22,500 I drive 40,000 miles a year. (which means the prius should do even better for me !!) FUEL per year and then for 10 years. we shall assume $4 per gallon to account for future increases in fuel costs and ti FURTHER give advantage to the prius. Prius 51mpg $31,372 + $4000 Battery pack. $35,372 Elantra 42mpg $38,095 they both have 10 year warranties (the warranty will not cover the prius battery as at 40k a year I will have LONG since lost my warranty and will have to start paying for my own repairs but again will ignore this to advantage the Prius) all other expenses are “equal” to both cars and can be ignored. SO Prius 10y TRC $71,372 Elantra 10y TRC $60,595 NOW lets compare the Nissan LEAF. I will IGNORE the rebates and tax credits for this discussion. $28,000 so $42,000 + $2000 solar array tie in 1200watts $44,000 I will need a replacement battery pack in 5-6 years so another $10,000 Leaf 10y TRC $54,000 you might be wondering where the electricity to charge it is factored in. thats the $2000 1200watt solar array with tie in. that array will produce more power per year than I will use to charge the car per year. so my fuel is “free” of added costs. the average driver can do this with a $800-$1200 array with tie in. I need a bigger array to offset my usage because of how many more miles I drive. you would be hard pressed to find a cheaper 10y TRC besides the LEAF and VERY likely nissan would help me with the cost of that battery but again lets ignore “perks” How about a super duper cheap car like a nissan versa. $11,000. so $16,500 32mpg so $50,000 in fuel over 10 years. Versa 10y TRC $66,500 !!! The only car that MIGHT compete is the Elio car. lets do it $6800 so $10,200 84mpg so $19,047 Elio 10y TRC $29,247 SO a car that is not even avaialble yet is the only car cheaper than a LEAF but it only has a 3 year warranty so you have to add maintenance to it for 7 years but I doubt it will require enough maintenance to get to $54,000 do the math yourself. Purchase price plus %50 this covers tax title tags and finance charges (remember THE VAST MAJORITY of us will be financing and on good terms) then factor in FUEL. miles you drive per year divided by MPG of the vehicle times that by $4 a gallon then times 10 for 10 years of fuel. add this fuel value to the purchase price value and you have a pretty good estimate of your 10y TRC not counting “regular maintenance” which is pretty equal across most cars (though the leaf will be lower here since it has less moving parts) the prius is a rip off. though its less a rip off than the VOLT which is a big F U to america. NOW if they would actually compel auto makers to start using the E95 NIMH batteries the price would be even cheaper. it is provably possible to build an E95 nimh based hyper simple electric car (4 door compact/mid size sedan 100mile range) for $15,500 full retail NO SUBSIDIES. so lets TRC this theoretical car. E95EV $15,500 so $23,750 + $2000 solar array. NO battery replacement needed. this battery was TESTED to 300,000 miles with ZERO degradation in capacity. I will need 400,000 miles BUT the manufacturer estimated 80% SOC at 250,000 miles which real world tests have proven it does better than this so if we assume 80% SOC at 400,000 miles that is still enough range to get me to work (54 miles one way charge at work) so ONE E95 battery pack should actually last me 400,000 miles NO problem. (and they are only $4500 to replace) so that’s it. E95EV $23,750 cheaper even than the $6800 84mpg Elio. and now you know why GM murdered it and made sure no one could use those batteries and now you know why NO ONE will fund production of those batteries. just think. for $20,000 you could build a simple minivan with TWO of those batteries under the floor and get 140-150 mile range (worst case) with 175 possible. how many people here NEED more than 150 miles or even 100 miles for 95% of their driving needs ? I drive 40,000 miles a year and a 70 mile range would cover 97% of all my travel needs. you know what I would do for the other 3% ? I have 4 other cars. I would PICK ONE and drive it |
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| nerys | Feb 14 2013, 06:08 PM Post #7 |
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Grr
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just for the heck of it. TRC of a Geo Metro XFI last year 94 $7500. so $7500 means $11,250 plus 53mpg combined (we all beat that but lets be fair) $30,188 for a total of Metro XFI 10y TRC $41,438 so the metro bears everything except the Elio the leaf does not do too bad against the metro when you factor in size and comfort. its only $13,000 more and when you factor in a 20y TRC suddenly the metro gets very expensive compared to the leaf. $64,000 for the leaf (another battery) and the metro would be just under $72,000 for 20 years (ignoring maintenance) |
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| Johnny Mullet | Feb 14 2013, 07:04 PM Post #8 |
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Fear the Mullet
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There is no argument. The Geo Metro is the MPG king. |
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| nerys | Feb 14 2013, 07:24 PM Post #9 |
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Grr
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except its not all about mpg's JM. if I wanted just MPG I could get a vw diesel and get better MPG's than a metro can on yearly average and do more with it. BUT with that vw comes higher parts costs and higher maintenance costs. the magic of the geo is NOT its high mpg's the magic of the geo is its high mpg combined with a very simple no frills easy to DIY and CHEAP to DIY repair mechanicals AND its dirt cheap purchase price (even new). ie its a DEAD SIMPLE car cheap car.... that also gets high mpg's Edited by nerys, Feb 14 2013, 07:25 PM.
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| Cobb | Feb 14 2013, 09:57 PM Post #10 |
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BANNED
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Blah, Blah, Blah. I dont know what I like more about the Insight, the infinite gear ratios, the heater mirrors, the automatic climate control, all the traction control, skid control and brake what ya ma call its..... I think getting 40+ mpg while going 80mph in the left lane tops it all. Ever notice the Prius is in the left lane passing everyone? The new 2010+ are still getting 50 mpg doing that. Nothing like saving time and money. Lets see you factor in the time it takes out of your life to hypermile vs 15-20 over the posted speed limit? I make almost 20 bucks an hour. It took me 45 minutes each way hypermiling to work. Now keeping with traffic 20 minutes. I think the first gen insight goes down in history as the highest fuel efficient car, even if you remove the IMA system. Next up is the Honda CRX with lean burn.
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| Coche Blanco | Feb 14 2013, 10:00 PM Post #11 |
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Troll Certified
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1 word: car payment |
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| Tinker1980 | Feb 14 2013, 10:15 PM Post #12 |
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So tell me, what is the TRC on a metro that you bought used? I have $263 invested in mine. Lets say worst csse happens and I eat the engine and transmission? I think I'd still be nowhere near the leaf in price |
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| Horn | Feb 15 2013, 12:08 AM Post #13 |
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Yes. I want a first gen insight so bad.... |
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| Tinker1980 | Feb 15 2013, 02:16 AM Post #14 |
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I feel I should continue to spout my nonsense, now that I'm at home with a decent keyboard: First of all, I feel I should speak my big issue with "Hybrid" cars, the "Elephant in the room" so to speak, what I think is the most obvious issue with them, why they are so obviously a scam. The problem is this. Toyota (I'm using them as an example since they make the most popular hybrid) has brought this car to market, for about $24,000. This car includes a battery pack, electric motor, control systems for same, and it has a gasoline engine, control systems for same, PLUS a transmission that balances the gas engine and the electric motor and lets them work together, in addition to the control systems for THAT. Now, Toyota executive, you're expecting me to belive that you can sell that manufacturing nightmare for $24,000, But you can't just sell me one that is total electric for the same price?? Horse , Mr/Ms Toyota Executive. And everyone acts like it's the greatest car ever. It's nowhere near as efficient as it could be. Look to VW. What does VW use? Diesel engines. They make non-hybrid cars with diesels that get better mileage than the prius. Exactly why the hell doesn't the Prius use a diesel engine? If we have to blow smoke up my ass about your feel good hybrid car, at least have the decency to use a diesel, instead of your BS "Atkinson Cycle" gasoline engine. Or, horror of horrors, maybe if you even made the attempt to build your hybrid car the right way, you know, the way These Guys did, you could have a much more efficent hybrid still yet. The idea of a paralell hybrid is such a joke, but only ONE auto manufacturer has had the balls to make a series hybrid. And only ONE auto manufacturer has had the gumption to release a total electric car to the public, but in 2014 there will be a second one - the Chevy Spark EV debuts in 2014. Me? I'm afraid I've done the math. I know how much gasoline would need to be, for it to be cheaper to buy a prius than to drive my 1989 Chevy truck, which gets 18 MPG. Gasoline would need to rise to $17.55 a gallon for the prius to be cheaper. My last tankful on the metro got me 52 mpg, so it will NEVER be cheaper to buy a new prius, than it is to buy a 20 year old metro. |
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| HelterSkelter | Feb 15 2013, 02:34 AM Post #15 |
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#1 Pizza Driver
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not that i'm saying it's better, but since i see so many people mentioning that the metro gets better fuel economy thatn the numbers listed, you also realize that the prius gets better than what was listed there, right? recently someone managed to average over 100 mpgs in a fuel economy contest in a prius. they used pulse and gliding. i know people that own them, they get 50-60 mpgs with just average style driving, as in not driving molasses slow like most of you guys. the prius is a GREAT car, if you are buying a car for fuel economy and want something comfy. the only reason i don't have one is becuase if i am going to spend a lot of money on a car it's not gonna be a car for economy it's gonna be for fun. if i had enough money to replace the economy car (my metro) with a prius i would probably drive a lotus instead and not care about FE. also i don't give a rat's ass about safety, comfort, or people's perception of my and my car. if i did i definitely wouldn't drive any of the cars i do. |
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Blah, Blah, Blah. I dont know what I like more about the Insight, the infinite gear ratios, the heater mirrors, the automatic climate control, all the traction control, skid control and brake what ya ma call its.....
Ever notice the Prius is in the left lane passing everyone? The new 2010+ are still getting 50 mpg doing that. Nothing like saving time and money. Lets see you factor in the time it takes out of your life to hypermile vs 15-20 over the posted speed limit? I make almost 20 bucks an hour. It took me 45 minutes each way hypermiling to work. Now keeping with traffic 20 minutes.
, Mr/Ms Toyota Executive.
9:21 AM Jul 11