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261 mpg VW - they're finally going to build it!
Topic Started: Feb 22 2013, 03:53 PM (1,252 Views)
Tinker1980
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nerys
Feb 22 2013, 04:35 PM
Coche is spot on. MPG is NEVER EVER the answer unless MPG puts you outside the curve.

I tell people all the time.

Do you think me driving a 60mpg metro saves me money?

they ALWAYS say yes. I say you would be wrong.

driving a 60mpg metro saves me nothing.

YOU NOT DRIVING a 60mpg metro saves me money.

the price of fuel is based on how much money they can extract from the system. if we use less fuel THEY MUST raise the price of fuel to compensate and maintain revenues.

if I magically raised the national average fuel economy by 2 times tomorrow by monday they would have raised the national average fuel price by 2 times. your CPM would stay the same. (cost per mile)

fuel economy is never the answer unless "YOU" control the fuel source to at least SOME extent. This is why they REFUSE to make NIMH based EV's (long lasting cheap batteries) but are OK with limited range Lithium EV's (short lived expensive batteries) because the BATTERY is part of the "cost of fuel" equation. they need to keep the cost HIGH.

this is why EV is the answer. YOU can have a SAY in the price and you can make your own electricity (plus it helps that they use so little electricity to begin with)

if you raise my electric price I can simply add a couple solar panels to my roof to "compensate" for this increase bringing my CPM back to where it was. even to ZERO if you have enough roof space and there is VERY little they can actively on a real time basis do about this.

ie RETURN comes back to the USER. this is why they want hydrogen. they retain control of the fuel. therefore control of the money.
Wait a second... Read this at work, and I've been turning it over in my head, I see a problem.

Gasoline was a lot cheaper in the 1980s and 1990s. Without question.

In the 1980's and 1990s, dear old dad drove an Isuzu P'up, an extended cab 4 cylinder 5 speed truck. It got 35 MPG.

In the 1990's, I had a diminutive and attractive blue eyed girlfriend who's mother drove a 1984 (I think, not sure of the year) Isuzu I-Mark Diesel. I drove it a few times as a teenager, driving as a teenager drives, and it consistently got over 50 MPG.

My first car, a 1978 Dodge Aspen, would get nearly 30 MPG out of it's 225 cubic inch engine.

My 1990 Corsica got over 30 MPG, with plenty of power to spare, from it's 3.1 V6.

My parents had a 1982 AMC Concord with a 258 I-6 that would get 30 MPG on the highway. (GREAT car, by the way. Got caught in a flood, they sold it when I was a kid because it wasn't ever right after that.)

For a while I had a 1983 Datsun Sentra (Really) that would easily get 40-45 mpg.

My 1991 Metro, last tankful, got me 52 mpg.

These were not unusual vehicles in the 80's and 90's. One of them (Aspen) was fairly large and heavy by today's standards. They all got decent mileage, especially compared to now, when auto manufacturers are getting all worked up over cars that get 28+ mpg. And gas was cheaper then. I know you might be about to say "but what about teh INFLASHONS!!!!111" Well, what about it? Wages have not kept up with the price of fuel. (Or things delivered using vehicles that burn fuel, e.g. everything) More people drive vehicles that get 14 MPG or so now than they did the the 80's or 90's. The gasoline should be cheaper now, for your logic to work, because cars use more gas. (compared to the same size vehicles of 25 years ago - newer cars are heavier, with added safety features and emissions control features)

I apologize for the rambling post here, I have just finished a week at work where it seemed like everything I touched turned to :shit And if I didn't touch it, someone else managed to :shit all over it. Do you have any idea what happens when some asshat connects a high pressure oxygen line to an even higher pressure nitrogen line for the express purpose of because fuck you that's why? Do you know what happens when you use a cutting laser to cut carbon steel with oxygen that has been contaminated with nitrogen? DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT COSTS TO PISS AWAY AN ENTIRE 20 FOOT HIGH OXYGEN TANK AND THEN REFILL IT? :banghead

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nerys
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Grr

you PRESUME that the equation is two sided. you presume that if better fuel economy makes the price go up that worse fuel economy will make the price go down.

that is called a logical fallacy. the price of fuel if the sellers have any say in the matter (sometimes JUST sometimes market forces can not be ignored) ONLY goes up. Not down.

you can not use or list "cars" to make your argument. the only valid metric is "National average fuel economy"

what was it in 1980? 1990? I don't know but i know it was not 30mpg.
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Horn


I agree with nerys here.

for every 1 car that got 30 mpgs in 1985.....there were probably 10 or 20 chevy 454 trucks or ford 460s that got 8-12 mpg....

There have been high mileage mpg cars for quite a while.....but when did you really start seeing higher (high 30s/40s) mpg vehicles as more of a common car......not really until the last 5, maybe 10 years. Now, there are several 40mpg mid size cars.
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Cobrajet25
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The government will have banned diesel fuel long before this thing ever hits the showroom. Pretty soon if it doesn't run on hemp oil or sunshine, it ain't gonna be good enough.
Edited by Cobrajet25, Feb 23 2013, 05:05 AM.
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Woodie
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Tinker1980
Feb 23 2013, 02:17 AM

In the 1990's, I had a diminutive and attractive blue eyed girlfriend
Pics or it didn't happen.
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rjsdotorg
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R E Member

A few pennies here on Saturday...
Station owners and fuel companies buy most product with contracts and futures, only a few % of all fuel is sold spot. The raising of spot is what allows profit-taking by the holder. Back when nat gas spot went way up many utility/co-gens shut down and sold their fuel stock - it made more money to. They'd paid a much lower contract price 12 months before.
Much of the world oil futures (~40%) are now held by JP Morgan (!) and other "investment" banks who can afford to sit on product (oil, houses etc) as the price is depressed, as they (actually the associated primary lenders' other half of the bank corp.) can borrow at the discount window at .75%. There are right now, and have been, tankers putting in circles in the gulf for the same reason; it's cheaper for the real product owners to idle along in a super tanker than come ashore in Houston and sell at depressed prices. Now that those who control the money supply are allowed (via repealed Glass-Steagall) to print "money" and use it to buy Real Stuff, the "market" and economics we studied in school is irrelevant - NYSE, COMEX, are now just a scam to fleece the true producers of society and maintain a plutocracy. The majority of stock and commodity trade volume is now via dark pools, eliminating real price discovery, for the benefit of the world's biggest traders.
If fleet ave MPG doubled, retail price would rise 90+%, anything else is called "leaving money on the table". The best price for any product is whatever the market will bear.

Back on topic, VW already has cars, in Europe, that get over 70mpg. Not for sale in USA.

I propose a GMF KickStarter program: with all the mechanics, engineers, and people here with generally enough spare time to work on a little car, we build a highly aero 2 cylinder 2 stoke diesel 2 seater, that gets 262mpg.
I suspect most of us own a second large vehicle for moving large things or lots of people anyway, or could rent one a day a month when needed, and the vast majority of commuter miles are single passenger, so a 2 seater is appropriate. It could be based on a tail-boxed 95 Metro with belly pan.
Edited by rjsdotorg, Feb 23 2013, 10:25 AM.
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Coche Blanco
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Woodie
Feb 23 2013, 07:16 AM
Tinker1980
Feb 23 2013, 02:17 AM

In the 1990's, I had a diminutive and attractive blue eyed girlfriend
Pics or it didn't happen.
:gp
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Tinker1980
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Woodie
Feb 23 2013, 07:16 AM
Tinker1980
Feb 23 2013, 02:17 AM

In the 1990's, I had a diminutive and attractive blue eyed girlfriend
Pics or it didn't happen.
I might have a picture somewhere. Twas 15+ years ago! Said girlfriend was more attractive when she was 4'11" 95 pounds, but with the children, the drinking, and the rather sedentary lifestyle, she's the same height but rather more than 190 pounds now. I could get you a recent picture. :rofl Time moves on for us all.

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