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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 23 2013, 12:17 AM (1,430 Views) | |
| nerys | Feb 23 2013, 12:17 AM Post #1 |
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Grr
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Got an interesting one here I got a ticket in the mail today for running a red light. well not ME running a red light but a vehicle registered to me running a red light. we have a 96 Towncar its in my name. I figured this would be pretty easy. PROVE I was not driving the car and I am good right? its actually pretty easy for me to prove this December 19th means I was at work at the time of the infraction (21:21) and the infraction occurred 33 minutes from work. I have security tapes going back that far at work and can get a letter from work validating I was at work at the time (I was their from 1800 to 0400 that day) its a miracle I even have this security tape apparently we had a THEFT that day and the tape from the 19th and the 20th were put asside for review and never got "recycled" through the timelapse machine. PURE dumb luck (why in the WORLD did they wait from December 19 to February 23 of the following YEAR to actual send a summons? you see that is the problem. I have NO CLUE who was in fact driving the lincoln. we have 5 drivers in the household and it was too stinking long ago for anyone to remember who was driving (I even asked BEFORE telling anyone WHY I was asking so they would not all just say not me :-) it was just too long ago for anyone to remember. the only reason I know what I was doing is that I work a fixed schedule and by dumb luck have a security tape. (I might even have dash cam footage from the car I WAS driving that day my gold minivan but I doubt I still have it) I keep a lot of digital junk but those files are HUGE and don't last long without a reason. SO easy you say right? goto court not guilty show my affidavit and security cam footage from the 19th and all is good? maybe not so easy. in New Jersey they have something that sounds extremely immoral. Joint Liability. both the registered owner AND the actual driver are considered jointly liable. so it sounds like they can accuse me of a crime they know for a fact I did not commit and make me liable for it anyway ??? (that does however PROVE it has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with REVENUE) anyone familiar with this kind of crap? suggestions? I am certainly not going to pay it especially since I can prove beyond any reasonable doubt I did not do it and I honestly have no idea WHO was driving it and neither does anyone else. (its been way too long) just not entirely sure what to do about it. Edited by nerys, Feb 23 2013, 12:22 AM.
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| HelterSkelter | Feb 23 2013, 12:18 AM Post #2 |
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#1 Pizza Driver
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man i saw something on this, but i don't remember if you are boned or not. sorry :{ |
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| nerys | Feb 23 2013, 12:28 AM Post #3 |
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Grr
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part of my problem is I flat out will not pay it. not only do I not recognize photo enforcement as legal (no due process is possible since you can not face your accuser) but I can prove beyond ANY doubt I was not driving the car. while I am not on camera at 21:21 I AM on camera either side of that time several times. some crude math says the only way I could be the driver of that car would be to have driven out their with the express intent of doing this at speeds in excess of 130mph the whole time. :-) what REALLY gets me is the 62 day delay in notifying me of anything AND this highly questionable joint liability crap. |
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| z34-5speed | Feb 23 2013, 12:31 AM Post #4 |
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Formerly "Tech Certified"
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I think you are going to be stuck with the ticket no matter what. |
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| nerys | Feb 23 2013, 12:34 AM Post #5 |
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Grr
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I am thinking that may very well be the case the problem is what are the consequences of not paying (this is VERY unclear) since I will refuse to pay it under any conditions. that is what I am afraid of. |
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| jousting jay | Feb 23 2013, 12:35 AM Post #6 |
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You are absolutely correct, you have the right to face your accuser, not evidence presented.
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| HelterSkelter | Feb 23 2013, 12:37 AM Post #7 |
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#1 Pizza Driver
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i wish you luck in your fight. |
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| nerys | Feb 23 2013, 12:38 AM Post #8 |
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Grr
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and even if the signing officer is present in court its hearsay since he was not present at the intersection. this ignores things such as mitigating circumstances and conditions and the most glaring issue in my case. WRONG PERSON. they tout this as a safety measure but "joint liability" smacks 100% of "revenue stream" plus I would NEVER take 322. way to many lights horrible for fuel economy :-) Edited by nerys, Feb 23 2013, 12:38 AM.
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| jousting jay | Feb 23 2013, 12:39 AM Post #9 |
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Exactly, absolutely bring that up as well. If there is a photo of you behind the grassy knoll, does that mean you are guilty of murder? |
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| Tinker1980 | Feb 23 2013, 12:49 AM Post #10 |
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Ghu I hate red light cameras/speed cameras. I made a license plate holder for my EX500 specifically so that the red light cameras could not take a photo of the tag. (In Oklahoma, it is legal for a motorcycle to treat red lights as stop signs, because if issues with making the sensor loops sensitive enough to pick up a bike) And of course they have "Joint Liability". And it's for the reason you state - they want to make sure they get their money. What will happen if you don't pay it? I cannot speak for New Jersey, but here in OK if you fail to appear in court you get a bench warrant. Obviously, you are talking about appearing in court. If you fail to pay, it will be suspension of your driver's license, (even though you weren't driving the car) a warrant will be made for your arrest, which might not be a problem until you get pulled over again. Then you will get put behind bars until you pay the ticket to be released. |
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| rjsdotorg | Feb 23 2013, 12:59 AM Post #11 |
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R E Member
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I heard an interesting one, related, from a lawyer. If you have a spouse, always register the car you drive in the others name. At least in CA, there isn't "joint" crap. The ticket goes to the other spouse. The other goes to court and it is obvious the photo is not her/him. Who then was driving your car? they ask. I don't have to say, you say, and, you can't be compelled to testify against a spouse. Dismissed. |
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| nerys | Feb 23 2013, 01:32 AM Post #12 |
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Grr
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ouch NICE one for cali drivers. :-) if I am lucky this joint liability crap was designed for people who will just say "it was not me" neener neener. Hopefully if you can PROVE it was not you they will dismiss it especially since out of 5 drivers there are 3 likely candidates (dad mom brother) and its been FAR too long to even guess who it might have been. its not like it was last week or something it was 62 freaking days ago. |
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| AlexK | Feb 23 2013, 01:35 AM Post #13 |
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Advanced Member
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It will be far easier and cheaper for you in the end if you just pay the ticket. Having principles is good but its also very expensive. An arrest record will hurt your ability to get a job and cheap insurance in the future. If it were me I would not let anyone drive my cars until someone fesses up and pays the bill. |
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| Tinker1980 | Feb 23 2013, 01:45 AM Post #14 |
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Fixed that for ya This is why I don't let any drive my car, be they friend or family member. (Except the wife) Wife's family especially has a lot of issues as far as invalid license, tendency to borrow a car then lend it to a friend, tendency to drive drunk, so on and so forth, that there is a good chance that if someone borrowed my Metro, it would either be a.) scrap metal or b.) so expensive to get it out of impound that I'd have to start looking for another Metro. Some people don't seem to understand how I can't just be a nice guy, and let some stranger use my $50 Metro, or my stupidly powerful and difficult to handle truck, or my very nice unblemished 2003 Saturn. |
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| nerys | Feb 23 2013, 02:02 AM Post #15 |
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Grr
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I think I know who did it and he agree's it probably was him. if the court will allow him to "assume" responsibility for the ticket IE ON HIS LICENSE not mine. I would be ok with that. but the wording of the law sounds like they will NOT release my fictitious liability for the ticket "because they can" and that bugs me. I am serious when I say I would rather spend a few days in jail than pay this ticket. and a contempt of court arrest won't be a hindrance on my record at all (and that it was it would be its debtors prison which is unconstitutional but they get around it by pretending its contempt of court to not pay the debt so they can pretend its not debtors prison) NJ can't suspend my PA license only suspend my ability to drive in NJ and I don't think they can do that for this either (its weird its kind of more like a "parking ticket" legally which is how they get away with this joint liability crap) |
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You are absolutely correct, you have the right to face your accuser, not evidence presented.


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9:18 AM Jul 11