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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 11 2013, 12:45 PM (678 Views) | |
| jherman93 | Mar 11 2013, 12:45 PM Post #1 |
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Warning: Lengthy post / Short novel ahead I bought a 92 xfi last fall. The guy says he was a metro rebuilder by hobby, but since work was picking up, he no longer had time to finish the one he was on. I ended up buying the unfinished project, which was running and driving, for "only the cost he expected the engine to be worth". After tinkering with a few things like replacing some brake items, fixing up and cleaning the interior, and fixing a leaky tire, it ran just fine for the rest of the year. When the bad weather started settling in, I let the car sit for a month or two as I was driving my 94 S10 Blazer. Now that I had a chance last week due to spring break, I changed the clutch, replaced the trans fluid with syncromesh, and gave it new coolant. When I got the transmission out, I noticed there was a green drip that appeared as if it was coming from the oil pan on the rear passenger side of the engine. I got a new gasket and dropped the pan to check things out and everything inside was nice and clean (which was expected since the engine was rebuilt). I noticed the drip was actually coming down the block from the water pipe where it goes into the water pump, so I took it out and cleaned the crud and debris from the gasket, put some gasket sealant in there, and reassembled. When I put the new oil pan gasket back in, I had no clue of the necessity to line up a small hole in the gasket that I just found out about here: http://geometroforum.com/topic/1987137/1/ All I did was put the gasket back in, made sure it was even around the block, and torqued the bolts down in a pattern to prevent the gasket from bunching up. Everything seemed fine in that department. The problem that I'm having now is that the thing was/is extremely difficult to start and keep running. I could not seem to understand why because I didn't touch anything that I figured would affect that. I am getting a lot of smoke puffing from the Y-tube on the air filter side which leaves me to believe it's either got blow-by issues or a clogged PCV valve. I wet-tested compression to find 220-220-215, but I did not do a dry test. . When the plugs were out, I found that they were very black, had a gap above .050, and had really worn electrodes. I got some new plugs from OReilly's and threw those in and now it starts relatively easy, but won't stay running well. With the coolant temp sensor unplugged, it runs better (but not great), up until it tries to overheat on me since the fan won't run. When I plug it back in, the fan comes on like it should, but the idle drops too low, it sounds unstable, and usually dies. Also, the vacuum pressure from the IAC valve is nice and strong, but seems to affect the idle very little whether it's plugged in or not. When I pull off the hose and put my finger over the opening, it dies right away.I've ordered a new cap and rotor and plug wires to finish the tuneup, and I've also ordered a new CTS and a PCV valve (in case it is clogged) to put in next weekend when I get my next chance to work on it. I also plan on re-renting the compression tester and doing a proper dry test as well. I'll probably take off the intake manifold and check the cleanliness of everything and clean as necessary. There is some visible oil in the intake coming from the Y-tube, so I expect it to need some sort of cleaning. What I'm hoping is that the few of you that are still with me could set me straight on a few things: 1) How long does it take for new rings to set in? This car has about 5-6k miles on the rebuit engine and I have no way of knowing whether the rings "set-in" correctly. I did my best to get some heat and pressure in the engine to set them in when I first started driving it and I did notice my mpg climb from low 30s at first to low 40s before I stopped for the winter. 2) Is there a way to tell if the oil pan gasket and/or head gasket were lined up correctly without tearing into it? Or is that just expecting it to be too easy? Would failure of either one of these possibilities cause the steady stream of oily smoke coming from the Y-tube, or is that a blow-by only scenario? 3) Does my 1992 even apply to the thread I listed above? Am I just freaking out too much about that? I can never seem to find good information that lines up directly with my year/trim and I don't know what years have possible differences in regards to my problems. 4) If the rings are supposed to be set in by now, but still aren't doing perfect, is there any "snake oil" product that will work? Things like this: http://www.restoreusa.com/Engine_Test.html ? I'm really hoping there's an easy way to fix/overcome this as it is only meant to be a budget daily. I'm not wanting to pour tons of money into this to break any mpg record, I'm only wanting to save money from DD'ing my S10 Blazer at 16-19 mpg. If I can get it running reliably and returning 40-45 mpg, I'll be happy. Even if I have to run a catch can and check the oil level every once in a while to do so. Just so long as that doesn't end up leaving a potentially catastrophic problem unmended. I could theoretically take the head and pan off and reinstall new rings if that's absolutely necessary, but if there's a way of getting it "good enough" without doing that, I would love to take the cheaper/easier route. What say ye, GMF? What should I do? I hope I haven't offended anybody with my "good enough" attitude about this, but I hope you can understand that this car was intended to just save me money. I'm not trying to have the best metro out there. Thanks to anyone who took the time to read through this entire book. Thanks again to anyone who contributes! You guys have been great so far, hopefully I can catch some more wisdom. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 11 2013, 05:25 PM Post #2 |
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So, you bought yourself a 20 year old project. You knocked the coolant tube o-ring loose when you changed the clutch. That's what's causing your coolant leak. PM me. I have the correct o-ring. Or, click on the link in my signature. Oil pan gaskets are not required or recommended, except by Blue Rhino. I have no idea why. Oil pan gaskets are guaranteed to leak. The thread by Johnny Mullet is totally incorrect. The holes that he's pointing to in the picture are crankcase vent holes. The oil drain holes in the head gasket are on the other side of the head gasket. This is the way the OEM head gaskets are made. They have worked well on millions of engines for trillions of miles. You commented that you purchased the car for only the cost he expected the engine to be worth. Did he overhaul it? There's a difference in overhauls. What all was done to the engine? 0.050" spark plug gap is your neglect. Dry compression tests are adequate. Wet compression checks only tell you how bad your piston rings are. The blacked condition of your spark plugs indicates that you have some sort of engine problem. Piston rings will set in the first few minutes of operation. It could take as long as 15,000 miles to fully break in. Although piston rings are not fully broken in, you should have no operational issues. There is no magic liquid in a bottle to cure your engine problems. Save your money for lunch. I read your thread. Kinda long. I got a TL;DR when I linked it to the "Mrs." If it runs, drive it. If you don't have a check engine light, do not attempt to fix anything that can turn the light on. Do you have a Factory Service Manual? |
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| Memphis metro | Mar 11 2013, 07:03 PM Post #3 |
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Plugs black. If not oil, indicates a rich running condition. Check your map sensor vaccum line and electrical connector. Is the check engine light on? Removing the intake manifold and cleaning everything well is a good idea. I just done this myself on one of mine. Take a good look at the intake gasket and make sure its not the cause of your water leak. I left just a tad of old gasket on mine and put it back together and mine leaked coolant. I took it back apart and cleaned the head good and reinstalled. With oil in the pcv like you are speaking of maybe the black on the plugs is oil. If so that is not good. As for oil pan gaskets, any metros older than 96 I recommend using a gasket with indian head on it. I never have trouble with them leaking if done correctly and not over tightened. One reason I use gaskets is I have seen several oil pans warped out of shape to the point rtv will not seal them. A gasket solves this problem. A close inspection of your oil pan when it is off the engine is a good idea and if the flanges are bent, put on a vise and hammer it straight. A lot of people drive screwdrivers into oil pans to break the seal to remove them and thus adds to a warped oil pan. |
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| jherman93 | Mar 11 2013, 07:04 PM Post #4 |
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Thanks very much Glen! I've seen many posts and threads of yours that have been very helpful, so thank you for that as well! I do not know what all he did with the engine. As far as I know, he honed the cylinders and put new, original sized rings in. I would assume new gaskets, obviously new bolts where it needed it. I don't know and I doubt that there are any new hoses/sensors in there and I'm starting to believe he did not put new cap/rotor/plugs/wires in. I can tell it's a new air filter though. As for the coolant pipe gasket, the one that was in there seemed fine. It had some crazy debris on one side of it so I'm surprised it wasn't leaking before I bumped it (it definitely wasn't leaking before, though). I put some gasket sealant in with it, would that not be adequate? Thanks for the advice. I'm probably just going to finish the tuneup, replace the CTS, and see if that gets it running reliably. If that works, I'll just leave it be till it gives me troubles again. And finally, to answer your last question; No, I don't have the Factory Service Manual. |
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| jherman93 | Mar 11 2013, 07:09 PM Post #5 |
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No the CEL is not on as long as the Coolant Temp Sensor is plugged in. I don't have an OBD1 diagnostic scanner, just a generic OBD2 only one, so I don't know what it is when it is on. Thanks for the help! |
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| Memphis metro | Mar 11 2013, 07:11 PM Post #6 |
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Your in luck. You dont need a scanner. Check for codes anyway. There are some codes that will not kick the light on. Check this thread out for how to check for codes, http://geometroforum.com/topic/638390/1/#new |
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| jherman93 | Mar 12 2013, 09:00 AM Post #7 |
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^^^^^ Great! Thanks for that! |
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| jherman93 | Mar 16 2013, 12:53 PM Post #8 |
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UPDATE: Got the rest of the tuneup parts in. Took the manifold out and checked for cleanliness. Most of it was clean but there was some gunk in some of the vacuum lines so I cleaned those out. Got new vacuum hoses for the IAC valve, put a new Coolant Temp Sensor in, new PCV valve (the old one was pretty dirty), new cap, rotor, plugs, and wires. Dry checked compression and it was at 180-180-170. Got everything put back together and it fired right up and ran smooth. Let it warm up and set the timing to 8 degrees and it's working wonderfully now. Thanks for all the help everyone! |
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| Memphis metro | Mar 16 2013, 01:13 PM Post #9 |
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Good deal. Thanks for the update. |
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. When the plugs were out, I found that they were very black, had a gap above .050, and had really worn electrodes. I got some new plugs from OReilly's and threw those in and now it starts relatively easy, but won't stay running well. With the coolant temp sensor unplugged, it runs better (but not great), up until it tries to overheat on me since the fan won't run. When I plug it back in, the fan comes on like it should, but the idle drops too low, it sounds unstable, and usually dies. Also, the vacuum pressure from the IAC valve is nice and strong, but seems to affect the idle very little whether it's plugged in or not. When I pull off the hose and put my finger over the opening, it dies right away.




7:19 PM Jul 10