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Another timing question
Topic Started: May 22 2013, 07:41 AM (1,047 Views)
shaft
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This is what my distributor looks like at 12* (initial timing was at 8* but seems to run better at 12*) after XFi cam install (all marks lined up). Timed the car at operating temp, with a timing light and the jumper on the connector by the firewall.

My question is, does the position looks like its correctly timed at 12* ? I remember seeing some pics of other distributors roughly around 8* and they seem to be turned more towards the firewall.

Mine at 12* is barely halfway. Could I be a tooth off?

Pls let me know your thoughts and pls let me know what I need to do. Thank you.


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Edited by shaft, May 22 2013, 12:03 PM.
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scubaman
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scubaman

Do u have a timing light? Using the bolt as a way of gauging the timing is not accurate. If you also know how to do static timing (engine off) you can do that without the need for a timing light. Remember if you are using a timing light AND you have an ELECTRONIC advance you must "jump out" the advance timing feature of the distributor.

The following video is for 1995 and later models.
>>>> WATCH HERE <<<<
>>>> READ HERE <<<<

If you have VACUUM Advance that is easy, you just remove the vacuum hose from the Distributor and bank the hose off while you do the timing.

>>>> and READ HERE <<<<
Edited by scubaman, May 22 2013, 08:16 AM.
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shaft
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Like I mentioned above I used a timing light otherwise I have no way of knowing that I'm at 12*.

Also I have no idea what you mean by "have an ELECTRONIC advance you must "jump out" the advance timing feature of the distributor". Please explain.

I do not see any vacuum line attached to the distributor, so I'm guessing I have no vacuum advance.
Edited by shaft, May 22 2013, 08:44 AM.
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cwatkin


I am also curious about this same thing and was wondering if you can be a tooth off on the timing belt and somehow the distributor can account for this error with differing positions.

For example. I saw a car where the timing looked like it was very retarded and almost completely rotated back to the firewall, yet the timing showed 5 degrees. My car had timing jumping all over the place for a while during the time I was dealing with various sensor and grounding issues. During this time, the timing would jump WAY off the scale if I advanced it all the way to the fully advanced position so I had it in a safe position backed way off. After I fixed all the issues, I checked timing again and it was at like -2 degrees. I advanced it to 7-8 degrees like is suggested here and noticed I was almost all the way advanced. There is barely any of the adjustment slot showing in front of the top bolt.

The car runs great now and I know the timing jumper was working as I removed it and put it back on while the car was running and the idle changed each time. I was curious if maybe I am somehow accounting for a slightly off timing belt.

Conor
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snowfish
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Basic GearHead

Cam timing marks aligned? :hmm Yes. :thumb
Jumper connection at firewall? :hmm Yes. :thumb
Confirm correct jumper connection by removing and timing advances on its own? :hmm Yes? :hmm
Engine Does Not ping under load? :hmm Nope. All appears fine and runs great! :thumb

Run it and enjoy! :drivin

The distributor position may have to do with the Xfi cam having +6 degrees built in. :news
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cwatkin


Those are pretty much my thoughts. The car runs great with no pinging so I am happy to leave it as is and run with it! I had so many issues at first that who knows what was all conflicting and complicating my situation?

My car is a 1994 with advanced emissions. One of the others was a 1991 and another a 1993. I don't know if this matters on where the timing is set at but all looked good with the timing light even though they were different on the distributor. None of these are an XFI.

Conor
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Coche Blanco
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Troll Certified

Run it.
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shaft
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snowfish
May 22 2013, 11:00 AM
Cam timing marks aligned? :hmm Yes. :thumb
Jumper connection at firewall? :hmm Yes. :thumb
Confirm correct jumper connection by removing and timing advances on its own? :hmm Yes? :hmm
Engine Does Not ping under load? :hmm Nope. All appears fine and runs great! :thumb

Run it and enjoy! :drivin

The distributor position may have to do with the Xfi cam having +6 degrees built in. :news
The cam gear timing mark is ever so slightly off compared to the valve cover timing. I mean you gotta really stare at it. Not sure if others have their marks in perfect alignment.
Its the best I can do........tried to move the cam either way and where it's currently at is the closest I can get it to align properly.

Jumper connector works because when remove it, timing reading changes.

I tried to listen really good for ping -- I'm no expert but I dont think I'm hearing it.


Thank you folks! Just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

shaft
May 22 2013, 12:16 PM
Thank you folks! Just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

:hmm Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. :lol

The rule of thumb I use is what 3Tech said in his cam installation instructions:

"If you experience excessive ‘pinging’, and ignition timing is correctly set (set to stock spec for testing), then you are 1 full tooth advanced. If you experience very poor low RPM performance with good power above 4000-5000RPM, then you are 1 full tooth retarded. The camshaft will need to be re-timed.
Ignition timing can then be advanced to full rotation on the distributor, for maximum power, but always listen for detonation, or ‘ping’."
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shaft
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Bad Bent
May 22 2013, 02:39 PM
The rule of thumb I use is what 3Tech said in his cam installation instructions:

"If you experience excessive ‘pinging’, and ignition timing is correctly set (set to stock spec for testing), then you are 1 full tooth advanced. If you experience very poor low RPM performance with good power above 4000-5000RPM, then you are 1 full tooth retarded. The camshaft will need to be re-timed.
Ignition timing can then be advanced to full rotation on the distributor, for maximum power, but always listen for detonation, or ‘ping’."


Does this only apply to the 3Tech reground cam and gear?

I have a genuine Xfi cam and gear.

From what I've read, 3Tech cams are not exactly identical to the OEM XFi cam. Or maybe I didn't understand it correctly.
Edited by shaft, May 22 2013, 03:12 PM.
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clarkdw


shaft
May 22 2013, 03:10 PM
Bad Bent
May 22 2013, 02:39 PM
The rule of thumb I use is what 3Tech said in his cam installation instructions:

"If you experience excessive ‘pinging’, and ignition timing is correctly set (set to stock spec for testing), then you are 1 full tooth advanced. If you experience very poor low RPM performance with good power above 4000-5000RPM, then you are 1 full tooth retarded. The camshaft will need to be re-timed.
Ignition timing can then be advanced to full rotation on the distributor, for maximum power, but always listen for detonation, or ‘ping’."


Does this only apply to the 3Tech reground cam and gear?

I have a genuine Xfi cam and gear.

From what I've read, 3Tech cams are not exactly identical to the OEM XFi cam. Or maybe I didn't understand it correctly.
Yes that advice applies to your cam as well.
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shaft
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clarkdw
May 22 2013, 03:16 PM
Yes that advice applies to your cam as well.
I dont hear any ping and I have good low RPM performance. I have not tried high RPM drive since my daily commute prohibits that.

I'm just going to drive this car and see if my FE is any better in couple of weeks.
Edited by shaft, May 22 2013, 03:27 PM.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

shaft
May 22 2013, 03:26 PM
clarkdw
May 22 2013, 03:16 PM
Yes that advice applies to your cam as well.
I dont hear any ping and I have good low RPM performance. I have not tried high RPM drive since my daily commute prohibits that.

I'm just going to drive this car and see if my FE is any better in couple of weeks.
Well, no, you can always run the rpm up in any gear. :D I'd try running 2nd or preferably 3rd up beyond the green shift light and see how it feels when you lightly pump the accelerator pedal.

BUT yes, check your FE and see. I think the distributor in the picture looks fine. :thumb
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