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| Need to shave 20 ppm more from hydrocarbon emissions; Failed Virginia emissions test | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 25 2013, 07:41 PM (6,498 Views) | |
| BillHoo | Sep 25 2013, 07:41 PM Post #1 |
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OK. I just failed the VA emissions inspection for hydrocarbons. Limit at 15 mph is 275 ppm and I tested at 295. I had passed the 25 mph test which had a limit of 500 and I got 493. (btw it was smoking as they revved it up, but this testing center ignored the smoke) Two years ago they wouldn't even test emissions due to "Excessive visible white smoke". Then it fail a bunch of things for safety. Here's the technical stuff. Seafoam maintenance performed within 450 miles (about 2 years and 7 months ago as Metroschultz was working on the fframe and other issues) Dry compression test done in June 2011 wa 100-135-140 Spark plugs showed signs of oil fouling. I got the car back last week. Paul had changed the oil and filter before driving 200 miles to hand the car to me. He got rid of the 2 year old gas and filled it with Hi octane fuel. Paul also put in a new starter that I bought via Rock Auto. I replaced air filter, PCV, cap, rotor and spark plug wires, and all spark plugs. I topped it of with more hi octane fuel. I fixed an exhaust leak in the resonator with a patch yesterday which seems to be holding well (see my recent thread titled "Muffler Bandage") Brought it to be tested today. Before that, I drive around for 30 minutes averaging 35-40 mph. I couldn't get on the freeway to go faster as it was slowed to a crawl. Got to testing center and there was one car ahead of me. After waiting 20 minutes, they tried to move the car and it wouldn't start (I thought changing the spark plug wires would have resolved that) I checked that all the wires wire firmly plugged in and it started. Had to wait 20 more minutes as they let another car go ahead when it would not start. They pulled the car in and spent 10 minutes looking through their book (probably looking at specs for 89 Metro). They put a hose on the end to let exhaust out of the bay and warmed it up for 5 or ten minutes. then they put some kind of sensor between the hose and the tailpipe. Revved it up and it began to smoke like crazy. Then they seemed to idle it for the longest time. Done. Limit at 15 mph is 275 ppm and I tested at 295. I failed by 20 ppm. So what to do? - Retard timing by 2 degrees? - put acetone or alcohol in the fuel tank? - Try to run it even harder before bringing it in? - Scrape out junk from the EGR? Edited by BillHoo, Sep 25 2013, 07:45 PM.
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| Memphis metro | Sep 25 2013, 07:50 PM Post #2 |
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Slide the inspector a 20 spot. One of my cars failed emmissions one time. A slight adjustment on the timing and it passed. Rebuild your engine. |
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| David95237 | Sep 25 2013, 08:10 PM Post #3 |
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I have used a gallon of E85 to pas a test by couple of points |
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| Deleted User | Sep 25 2013, 08:38 PM Post #4 |
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Wait until January. Your exemption will be in effect. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem that you're highly inclined to fix the cause of your high emissions. Read this: What Causes High Hydrocarbon (HC)? GG |
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| truckjohn | Sep 25 2013, 09:54 PM Post #5 |
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So... It was running a hair rich at idle.... Amongst other things.... High octane fuel will do that... especially on a standard fuel car set up to run "Standard" factory parameters.... You are putting in a fuel that has more energy per unit... and adding the same amount of air as with the cheaper, lower energy fuel..... then it burns rich... Then.. Idled around for a *LONG* time so the engine could load up good... Hmmm.... |
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| BillHoo | Sep 25 2013, 11:11 PM Post #6 |
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I bought the car for $550 Its been in the shop for over 2 years and 7 months. I've spent over FIVE times that amount in repairs and insurance. In that time period I have only had it available to me to drive a total of two weeks. The car has Never passed inspection. I've been unemployed since April. Yes, I'm not inclined to spend much more money on this car. |
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| BillHoo | Sep 25 2013, 11:28 PM Post #7 |
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Yes, I have been reading around in regards to hydrocarbons and premium fuels. I think Metroschultz had put the hi octane gas in there last week to clean out the system after it had been sitting in his driveway with a full tank when I dropped it off in Jan 2010. I'm going to drive it around to burn off the gas and put in regular before the next reinspection. Fuel injection cleaner will probably help a bit. Maybe put in a few bottles of HEET in the next tank. Clean out the EGR Retard the timing by 1 or two degrees. Edited by BillHoo, Sep 25 2013, 11:47 PM.
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| BillHoo | Sep 25 2013, 11:40 PM Post #8 |
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Already in the middle of engine rebuild of my 93 Metro started last year. Wife will not tolerate another dead car in the yard. The cloud of mosquitoes in my yard has kept me from working on it during the warm months. Several funerals and other mishaps and priorities and managing some properties across two states have kept me off that project in the cold months. If I can get past this emissions inspection on the 89 metro, I can tolerate the 48 mpg that it currently gets. If it ever drops down to mpgs in the 30s I'll consider an engine rebuild. |
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| Woodie | Sep 26 2013, 06:15 AM Post #9 |
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Yeah, I guess they did! That's just stone worn out, done, kaput. I answered this elsewhere, but now this is new information. Your unburned hydrocarbons are oil getting past the rings and unburned fuel because there's no compression. High test usually has more cleaning detergents in it, so it's not a bad idea to try to clean some crap out of a car which has been sitting. Problem is, it's exactly the WRONG thing for passing an emissions test. So is RETARDING the timing, you need more advance to battle unburned hydrocarbons. |
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| truckjohn | Sep 26 2013, 08:38 AM Post #10 |
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Any idea why it won't start right? Anyway.. Between now and whenever you are ready to re-test.... I would get that sucker out on the highway..... Run it good.... Run like 3 or 4 tanks at highway speeds.... It's amazing what this will do to engines...... Cleans them out real good.... Run good, high quality STANDARD pump gas..... 87 octane - not Premium.... Set the timing to standard or maybe 1-2 degrees advanced... Run the tank down pretty low... Then... when you are ready to go to the smog check place..... Plan it out so you can get there when there are no other cars.... like say between 9:30 - 11 AM or 2 - 4 PM on Tuesday - Thursday..... Sitting in the parking lot idling for 30 minutes will typically make it run rich..... That morning - Get it out and drive it good. THEN - change the oil and filter. Fresh, clean oil..... Brand new spark plugs Fill up the gas tank with new fresh tank of gas, high quality 87 octane "regular"..... Take it in there and see how she does... Thanks |
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| truckjohn | Sep 26 2013, 08:43 AM Post #11 |
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Bring that sucker down to South Cackalacky and sell it.... Long lines of people wanting to buy cheap Geo metro's..... and we don't have any smog tests... I had 5 sold out from under me within a 2 month period before I bought the Little Red Car..... Literally.... Talking to the owner... Yep, still for sale.. Cash in my hand.... Call up again on the way over that day after work.... "Sorry man, just sold it..." Then... Take the money and use it to BUY one that has current emissions stickers on it for your state.... Thanks Edited by truckjohn, Sep 26 2013, 08:45 AM.
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| High MX | Sep 26 2013, 09:39 AM Post #12 |
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Sounds like you haven't had a chance to put some miles on the car. Before I would do anything I would run it down the highway for a good 20 to 30 miles several times. This will allow the catalytic converter to get heat soaked and burn off the crap that has collected the last couple years. It will allow accumulated hydrocarbons built up in the bottom end of the engine to vaporize. My grandfather was a lead mechanic at a Ford dealership and he had a couple customers who just putted around town that would bring thier car in every couple months complaining their car wouldn't run. He would take the car out and run it wide open for a few miles to blow all the carbon buildup (unburnt hydrocarbons) out. After that he would check the plugs and change the oil before sending them on their way. They would be happy as a lark their car was running great again. Anyways, I recommend you use this: 3M 08963 Fuel System Tune-Up Kit (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/3M-Fuel-system-tune-up-kit/_/N-26rzZ1z140d1?itemIdentifier=442779_0_0_&target=shelf) It is a little pricey but it has always worked for me. Just make sure you double check the timing is set to factory specs, check all your vacuum lines, set the gap on your plugs and check the airbox for obstructions to name a few things. Definately hit the highway for a good 20 to 30 minutes before you pull into the inspection station so the catalytic converter is nice and hot. Good Luck! |
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| vr4 | Sep 26 2013, 11:41 AM Post #13 |
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It's simple. The burning oil is killing your readings. Fix that. No real other way to magically clean things up. |
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| gbreadman | Sep 26 2013, 12:41 PM Post #14 |
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Tinkerer
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Replacing the oxygen sensor did it for me. Dropped HC's and CO's like a rock. It was a long time ago, the paperwork is somewhere back there in the garage. Did nothing for the NOx but that was expected. Does the 89 have an o2 sensor??
Edited by gbreadman, Sep 26 2013, 12:44 PM.
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| BillHoo | Sep 26 2013, 04:39 PM Post #15 |
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Here's the report if anyone can come up with ideas![]() I put some fuel injector cleaner in the tank and took the car out for an 80 mile run hitting 70 at times. Runs real nice. Hard to make a dent in the gas tank since it's getting around 48 mpg! I may have to siphon off some gas to get it empty and put in good quality REGULAR gas. Edited by BillHoo, Sep 26 2013, 04:43 PM.
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