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Billowing white smoke out tailpipe
Topic Started: Oct 8 2013, 05:22 AM (17,714 Views)
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It's probably oil farting. A head gasket won't fix oil farting.
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Freeman
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Geo Glenn
Feb 4 2014, 01:30 PM
It's probably oil farting. A head gasket won't fix oil farting.
Oil farting... hmmm. Never heard of that. But wouldn't billowing white smoke mean it's a constant thing? Farting sort of implies that it is a little here, a little there. I thought the OP had a constant issue. Like he was smogging the whole streat.
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omniminded


TurboEF
Feb 4 2014, 02:46 PM
Geo Glenn
Feb 4 2014, 01:30 PM
It's probably oil farting. A head gasket won't fix oil farting.
Oil farting... hmmm. Never heard of that. But wouldn't billowing white smoke mean it's a constant thing? Farting sort of implies that it is a little here, a little there. I thought the OP had a constant issue. Like he was smogging the whole streat.


It was not a constant thing. It was occurring periodically given specific circumstances. It was occurring when I was driving highway speeds (over 50 mph) and would generally be triggered at 65 mph and above. It mostly only happened only if I had been driving at highway speed for over 30 minutes.

It did appear to parallel an oil leak. It did not do it every time that I drove highway speeds. It did it most times on longer drives at highway speed, but not every time for that either.

That said, emphasis is on "was" (past tense). It hasn't had an issue in months, and last I checked, my oil level was remaining steady. I cannot say why it stopped and it may well return. I don't know why it stopped either. I am glad it did stop whatever the reason.
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Stubby
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So DO NOT do a PCV delete, drained the engine of oil, soaked my air filter in oil, and still smoked, just not as badly. When I was pulling out the brand new PCV valve I noticed some junk was stuck in it, so I'm going to replace the valve, and if that doesn't work I'm going to remove the head.
Edited by Stubby, Feb 6 2014, 01:04 PM.
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sphenicie


TurboEF
Feb 4 2014, 02:46 PM
Geo Glenn
Feb 4 2014, 01:30 PM
It's probably oil farting. A head gasket won't fix oil farting.
Oil farting... hmmm. Never heard of that. But wouldn't billowing white smoke mean it's a constant thing? Farting sort of implies that it is a little here, a little there. I thought the OP had a constant issue. Like he was smogging the whole streat.
an "oil fart" is an intermittent condition. 'a little' here,a little there, yes, but little is subjective. the smaller amounts I was able to collect from a single o/f were about 2-4 oz. let me assure you that when you have that amount of HOT oil go thru the combustion process

you will have BILLOWING WHITE SMOKE.

the duration of an individual o/f will vary greatly. 2-4 oz. up to 22 oz. of oil. since I had the farts in the vert, I was able to smell the fart coming, before the smoke was visual, and stop and throw up the hood. I could see the liquid oil POUR into the fart collector.

as I stated, I "had" the o/f's in the vert. . the operative word here is had. . not only did I HAVE the o/f's, I eliminated the condition, then brought it back, and eliminated it again.

anyone else out there done this?

did you do it in a step by step, single elimination process, or a shotgun approach?
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sphenicie
Feb 7 2014, 06:37 AM
TurboEF
Feb 4 2014, 02:46 PM
Geo Glenn
Feb 4 2014, 01:30 PM
It's probably oil farting. A head gasket won't fix oil farting.
Oil farting... hmmm. Never heard of that. But wouldn't billowing white smoke mean it's a constant thing? Farting sort of implies that it is a little here, a little there. I thought the OP had a constant issue. Like he was smogging the whole streat.
an "oil fart" is an intermittent condition. 'a little' here,a little there, yes, but little is subjective. the smaller amounts I was able to collect from a single o/f were about 2-4 oz. let me assure you that when you have that amount of HOT oil go thru the combustion process

you will have BILLOWING WHITE SMOKE.

the duration of an individual o/f will vary greatly. 2-4 oz. up to 22 oz. of oil. since I had the farts in the vert, I was able to smell the fart coming, before the smoke was visual, and stop and throw up the hood. I could see the liquid oil POUR into the fart collector.

as I stated, I "had" the o/f's in the vert. . the operative word here is had. . not only did I HAVE the o/f's, I eliminated the condition, then brought it back, and eliminated it again.

anyone else out there done this?

did you do it in a step by step, single elimination process, or a shotgun approach?
One step at a time. Got to be scientific on this one. You've got the right idea with the camshaft clearances. Piston to wall clearances for sure. Maybe the oil check valve, but probably not if the clearances on the camshaft bearing surfaces are tight. Mythstae and I are getting ready to put an overhauled head with a new, never used camshaft on her engine. Tight clearances on the head to match the rest of the Geo Glenn built bottom end. Oil farts don't happen at 60 MPH any more, but closer to 75 MPH. They will be eliminated with the new head installation. The head gaskets that have been used have the standard issue small vent holes. The new head is going on with a BT900 head gasket from NAPA. The crankcase vent holes in the head gasket will not be enlarged. I've never had any problems with my engine overhauls. Got a little stacked in the wrong direction on Mythstae's engine since her head was "professionally" overhauled. The professionals failed. The center camshaft bearing barely touches a piece of green plasti-gauge. No telling what the clearance really is.

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Stubby
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Going to take a quick look with Schultz here in the near future and see if we (he) find anything obvious. I'll let you know the major things we check, and how much it costs me to check. You and I have the exact same issue, so hopefully whatever we find can be related to yours as well. P.S. If you're driving your car, continually check the oil. Mine went empty in just a few hundred miles.
Edited by Stubby, Feb 20 2014, 01:48 AM.
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sphenicie


scientific is exactly the route I took. I did lots of analysis and work with only one aspect at a time.
correct the problem, then make it reappear, then correct it again.

the first thing that one needs to do is to define terminology.

if you think you have true o/f's, the first thing you should do is to install a fart collector. one made with a clear reservoir so you can watch WITH YOUR OWN EYES as the liquid oil spews out into the collector.

YES, monitor your oil closely. it does not take long to go dry. even small farts, 2-4 oz, will dwindle your oil in no time.

the reason o/f's can be so hard to define is because of the exact nature of the condition, it is variable. it depends upon the nature of the driving conditions and the flow of oil to and out of the head.
odds are you will never see one during city driving. why? because the head has plenty of time to clear during driving.

it is simple math...to cause the head to flood with oil there is a plus side and a minus side.
plus= oil in
minus= oil out.
as long as there is an equilibrium or the out exceeds the in, NO OIL FARTS.

the check valve, in place or not, has absolutely nothing to do with the occurrence of o/f's. the valve has only one purpose, that is to keep oil in the head after the engine is shut down. PEROID. any additional flow to the head, caused by it's not being in place, is not going to flood the head. the volume/pressure will be constant at any given rpm, head oiling is controlled by the proper fit of the components of the head.
too loose=too much oil to the head.

since the engine is designed with a gravity return system, with only two return ports(plus two crank case gas relief ports), there is a maximum return flow rate, when you exceed that you build up oil in the head.

even with extreme blow by, you will not have o/f's. why? try this, take a long neck bottle 1/2 full with water. put a straw to the bottom. now blow. how much water are you able to blow out? try it again, blow harder! come on, your not trying. you can not build a container out of a liquid.

the term oil fart. I have read other folks "oil farts" from things like a broken ring. NOT oil farts. if this was o/f's, then you would have o/f's in all kinds of engines. they are characteristic to ohc engines. you will not get an oil fart from a chev 350, broken ring or not.
as a matter of fact, I have opened a g10, with the majority of the skirt gone and the two lower rings in the oil pan, yet no oil farts! I would call that EXTREME BLOW BY. of the 23 metros I have had, as worn out as some were, no other has had o/f's. just one of those things that make you go HMMM.

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Stubby
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Just a quick update, yesterday I removed my temporary fix (removed and plugged pcv valve and ran 1/2" tubing from the valve cover into a splitter. From there into two smaller hoses that ran to my intake and the check oil tube.) It eliminated the oil farts, but doesn't correct any clearance issues causing the oil to collect in the valve covor. When I went to install a new PCV valve, it was not fit correctly. Someone had used a screw that was too long causing it to not seal snugly. I don't think this caused the oil farts, but I want you to know EVERYTHING I'm doing to fix my farts.
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sphenicie


@ Stubby, no, a leaky pcv will not cause o/fs. when was your rebuild done? did you do it yourself? do you have an itemized receipt?

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Stubby
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No itemized receipt. The rebuild was done prior to my purchase by a local shop.

PCV was not the cause of the farts.

Onto a troubleshooting session with Metroschultz. Again, I'll let you know what we check, what we find, and how much it costs me.
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Stubby
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Took a look at it today and talked with Metroschultz. Going to replace the valve cover. Waiting on a gasket. (update next Saturday) Apparently there is some kind of filter made of a steel wool type stuff that acts to block the oil from escaping the valve cover. $12 for the gasket.
Edited by Stubby, Mar 1 2014, 09:35 PM.
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Stubby
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Alrighty, update time.

1.Compression test = $0 190/210/195 so compression is good.
2. Drained oil and measured. = $20 for new oil. Car had 5qts. and it's supposed to have 3.2qts.(3L) added the correct amount of oil
3. When adding oil to the valve cover, removed dipstick and poured with a large funnel FAST, and oil drained right into the crankcase as fast as we could pour it. = no restriction from the head.

That's what we did today, and I'll let you know if it fixed my farts.
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Stubby
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Still not fixed. Back to plan A (New Valve cover.)
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Mrbreeze


My question is, the G10 engines have a oil pressure relief valve in the front cover, what if that is malfunctioning? Any one ever actually check the oil pressure when that condition occurs? Mine currently do not do it so I haven't be motivated to find out..
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