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Under-power/ Misfire, Think Timing is off?; Timing 1990 Geo Metro Lsi 1.0L Auto 4 door
Topic Started: Oct 18 2013, 07:35 PM (2,282 Views)
BillMan
Elite Member
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Vechile has a little bit of a flashback now,

Timing belt went bad.
Replaced timing belt but person did not set it
Drove fine but seemed a tush off...
Brought it in and paid $200 to have it timed.
Mechanic said the timing on top is pointed straight up
Mechanic said timing on bottom is pointed up at a spring.
He said he looked online and it looks like that is where you point it too.
Not sure what spring he is talking about or whatever?

Let me know if this is correct or what I should do?

They said it drove fine around the block afterwards, but I drove it and it was losing power and than would get up and go again, or misfire, it happened on and off and drove it about half a mile.

I would say lose of power about 3 or 4x....

Please help.

check engine light is blinking. 1, and than 2. which means everything is fine, but can not figure out how to get it to stop doing that? Must be jumpered somewhere, but in the OBDI port under the hood, nothing is jumpered....
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Memphis metro


Cam gear notch points to notch in valve cover. Crank gear notch points to a mark on the oil pump, straight up. Check distributor timing with a timing light.

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BillMan
Elite Member
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That is what they said to point it at. Instead of that notch being there, it is a spring.... So it must be correct...

So what would the next cause be. I'm guessing the timing has to be right even with a timing light if both marks match up....
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BillMan
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Do you have to line the notches up? Or do you have to turn it so many times for it to line up correctly? Like turn it twice and than line the cam up?
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Memphis metro


Line the notches up. Forget the spring. Use the timing marks. Install belt and adjust. Rotate engine a couple of times and line the marks back up. If still right, then good to go.
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BillMan
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I brought it up to a mechanic to get the timing in place. Paid $200, They said they went online and lined the timing marks up.

What do you mean by rotate engine? And curious on why you have to do that?

Thanks
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BillMan
Elite Member
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Also, marks? The mechanic told me he didn't see the other mark, so he said it looked like it lined up with the spring? So that is what he lined it up too.
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Memphis metro


Valve timing and ignition timing is two differant things. Once the timing belt is installed, a timing light should be put on the vehicle and the distributor timing set using a timing light. As to engine rotation, the engine should be turned two or three revolutions after the timing belt is installed and adjusted and after rotating line your timing marks back up. The purpose of it is to recheck that the timing marks are still correct. Sometimes the timing marks may appear right upon intital belt installation but once the belt is adjusted and engine is rotated, it can become obvious you installed the belt off by a tooth. If the marks still align correctly after rotating the engine a couple of times and rechecking, then you are good to go. Early models may have had the spring located in that position, I am not sure. I know this though, the timing mark on the crank gear should point straight up. In the above pictures, the spring is to the right of the timing marks and is not used for alignment purposes or you will be off on belt installation.
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BillMan
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Big Rhino
Oct 18 2013, 09:46 PM
Line the notches up. Forget the spring. Use the timing marks. Install belt and adjust. Rotate engine a couple of times and line the marks back up. If still right, then good to go.




So,
#1 Line nothces up
#2 Bottom one is lined up with spring (as mechanic said he couldn't see the other notch
#3 Install belt (How do you adjust when belt is installed?
#4 Roate engine a couple times? Does that mean start it and let it run for about 5 seconds?
#5 Take belt off and adjust again???

Sorry I'm really lost.

The mechanic just said he pointed them both up he found the top one but the bottom one is lined up with the spring.
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clarkdw


The crankshaft sprocket must be lined up with the arrow, not the spring. Looks like that would be about 1 tooth off.
You turn the engine two or so turns just as a check that it still appears in the same orientation. It doesn't change anything.

The code 12 indicates that someone left the fuse in the diagnostic port in the fuse panel. Under the dash near the left side beside the steering column you will find the fuse panel. At the rear of the fuse panel you will find a raised spot for a fuse. It is the diagnostic port and should not have a fuse in it unless you are checking the codes. Remove the fuse and no more flashing 12.
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BillMan
Elite Member
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So what would be the reason now for the car misfiring? Oh man, I am so lost now.

Sounds like the timing is lined up. that is what he said, That it was pointing straight up. The rotar and the coil have already been replaced so now I dont know what is causing it to backfire and causing the engine to stall and than regain power???

I know it is loud because of the muffler and will put a new one on once the car runs good again.
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patrickbruce
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average teenage gearhead

Dude. Timing is still off. F*** the spring. Line up the sprockets with the marks in the picture. This will fix the problems :thumb
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socal geo garage
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I can help you here is what I do with the 1989 to 92 old style square belt type,these years the Phillips screw and a timing belt tensioner spring Completely block sight of the arrow / lower mark , you will be able to see it clearly if you remove the spring and Phillips screw, vice grips on the Phillips screw is the only way to remove it. Discard the spring and screw you don't need them ,slight tension on the timing belt by pushing down on the lever is all that's needed. Sounds like your mechanic timed it wrong. :)
Edited by socal geo garage, Oct 18 2013, 10:46 PM.
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BillMan
Elite Member
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Would one notch off really cause power loss and etc? Also, a timing light can confirm this?

Gotchya, mark is behind the spring. Well, I should be able to bring it back in and shouldn't be charged for him to do it right?
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socal geo garage
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BillMan
Oct 18 2013, 10:54 PM
Would one notch off really cause power loss and etc? Also, a timing light can confirm this?

Gotchya, mark is behind the spring. Well, I should be able to bring it back in and shouldn't be charged for him to do it right?
from the top looking down the mark is under the screw you can not see it from the top view,but if remove the side inner fender plastic cover and use a light you can see the mark. ^o)

Setting the cam timing is very easy to do remove the oil cap the cam lobe you see in there is number 4 exhaust turn the cam until the point end of it is facing the firewall ,confirm your cam wheel mark is at the notch at the valve cover mark and ignition rotor is pointing to number one plug wire on the cap. This is TDC compression stroke.
Edited by socal geo garage, Oct 18 2013, 11:08 PM.
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