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Broken Shifter!!; It dropped into the floor!
Topic Started: Dec 2 2013, 12:38 PM (3,824 Views)
truckjohn


omniminded
Dec 4 2013, 05:20 AM
You're absolutely right. Its not the right car for me -- no car is the right car for me, I don't like cars, especially not tiny ones. I'll prefer driving my Suburban (or a motor bike) any day of the week. -- But I dislike spending more than need be on gas, and there are times when a motorbike just isn't practical.

But that's not really where you were going there. You are essentially implying that I am over reacting and/or unprepared for the trials that come with the ownership of a late model vehicle (as if it's my first), while in reality, the issue has nothing to do with it being a late model vehicle, it has to do with having been cheated by a fraudster. Frankly if you think fraud is nothing to get upset about, I've got this dandy bridge to sell you in Brooklyn, you'll double your investment in a week!
I am saying simply "Know thyself"....

Many of us here really enjoy digging into old rust and grease..... There are A LOT of folks who hate this sort of thing, or aren't good at it..... Those are NOT the people who restore British cars.... British motorcycles, Indians, and old Harley's.. or bring Geo's back from the dead..... We enjoy that sort of thing......

So... Having a car that breaks down or has weird problems isn't a horrible thing, it's just a challenge..... WE WILL DEFEAT IT... and it's FUN....

I can tell it's NOT fun for you. I can tell it's very stressful for you... You are VERY unhappy finding all of these weird, crappy, broken things... It's not a challenge or another project - just a drain.. A source of unhappiness..

When it becomes a drain or a source of unhappiness - know yourself... Get rid of the thing and move on.

Thanks
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omniminded


clarkdw
Dec 4 2013, 09:00 AM
It would be pretty difficult to prove in court that he left the bolts out intentionally. Poor workmanship yes, but fraud?
Well the point is moot now.

I had a talk with another friend on the subject of fixing the Geo now or letting it sit and fixing it eventually and getting something else to drive and fix up now. It helped settle my mind. I'm sticking with the Geo as I have with every other used vehicle I've owned and decided that not only will I make necessary repairs, but will seek to make improvements as I can afford to over time.

I'm still pissed about the fraud. I won't seek legal action since I decided to dedicate myself to the Geo. Hence I don't need to prove it in court, but I've zero doubt that it was fraud. This IS my first experience with outright fraud and on principal, I believe in enforcing consequences which in this instance would mean legal action. But I just don't see that there would be any legal avenues worth pursuing here. I had my ranting session and will just leave it at that and move on from it and move forward with repairs and improvements on the Geo.
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geogonfa
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Hate to say this...but in Texas, it's "buyer beware"...in other words, if you bought it in Texas, you have no recourse unless you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he deliberately sold you this Metro knowing it was missing those bolts...and I'm not saying you can't try, but it's gonna be tough since you bought it in September, and now it's already December...It's probably like Johnny Mullet said," the seller was a "flipper""...really am sorry about your troubles...
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perfesser
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Elite Member - Former Metro owner

omniminded
Dec 4 2013, 05:20 AM
truckjohn
Dec 2 2013, 09:43 PM
You own it now... Caveat Emptor...

Caveat Emptor by definition expects "reasonable inspection" before purchase
ummm ... actually caveat emptor is Latin for "let the buyer beware"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caveat%20emptor

caveat emp·tor noun \-ˈem(p)-tər, -ˌtȯr\
law : the principle that a person who buys something is responsible for making sure that it is in good condition, works properly, etc.

Full Definition of CAVEAT EMPTOR

: a principle in commerce: without a warranty the buyer takes the risk

Origin of CAVEAT EMPTOR

New Latin, let the buyer beware
First Known Use: 1523


Under caveat emptor, the buyer takes all the risks, as you did when you went so far to purchase a car sight unseen.

I bought my Metro on eBay from a guy 2 states from here. There were parts of the auction description that were, shall we say, "optimistically" phrased, and when I got it home, the battery that I saw in it when I got there to pick it up had been switched for a lawn tractor battery! I'm still fixing it up, but I've been around cars long enough to know that it's all part of the game.

The bar is set pretty high to prove fraud in a court of law. Until and unless you can definitively prove it, you should look up the definition of another legal term. "Slander" or in other words - "let the speaker beware".

Okay, you're mad and you think you were mistreated on this deal. Maybe you were, maybe not. Only you can decide how bitter this will make you. Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other guy to die.
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omniminded


truckjohn
Dec 4 2013, 12:25 PM
I can tell it's NOT fun for you. I can tell it's very stressful for you... You are VERY unhappy finding all of these weird, crappy, broken things... It's not a challenge or another project - just a drain.. A source of unhappiness..

When it becomes a drain or a source of unhappiness - know yourself... Get rid of the thing and move on.


Well the reply I made just before this addresses my decided course of action, where the rant came from (violated principals), and that I'm moving on and moving forward.

You couldn't be more correct, the problems with the Geo are not fun for me. I view it as a drain on my finances and on my time. I have a very full plate to begin with and many financial obligations for a major life project I am in the middle of. The Geo's purpose is getting me from point A to point B and back again while I work towards THAT project. I had purchased the Geo because it was supposedly in good shape to begin with, supposedly with a recently rebuilt engine. I paid 10 times more than I would have dared pay for a "project car". That money paid was so I'd have something mostly reliable needing only minor or occasional big repairs.

That said, I bought the Geo because it has a place in both my present and long term plans, goals, and objectives. I decided to keep it long term, repair it, and make improvements.

I'm not a car (read: any vehicle) person. They don't excite me. I grew up in NYC thinking I'd use public transportation my whole life and was content with that. I have zero knowledge of how to work on and fix up the Geo myself. I don't enjoy it. Fortunately I have 2 friends with the knowledge, skill, and interest. That means spending extra to pay John (mechanic friend doing the work). Thankfully, our arrangement makes it much more affordable than if I was stuck having to pay a shop.

My interest is not to "restore" the Geo, but rather, to make improvements that I hope will include comfort, appearance, performance, and ecomodded fuel economy, not necessarily in that order. That was mostly the plan from the start. Now I'm just stuck paying way more and far sooner than I was prepared for.
Edited by omniminded, Dec 9 2013, 03:07 PM.
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omniminded


perfesser
Dec 4 2013, 01:54 PM
omniminded
Dec 4 2013, 05:20 AM
truckjohn
Dec 2 2013, 09:43 PM
You own it now... Caveat Emptor...

Caveat Emptor by definition expects "reasonable inspection" before purchase
ummm ... actually caveat emptor is Latin for "let the buyer beware"
Yes, I know it means "buyer beware". I was stating that as part of the "caveat emptor/buyer beware" definition that the buyer is expected to do a "reasonable inspection" before purchase. All law is based upon the principal of "the reasonable person". No reasonable seller would permit, nor would any reasonable buyer inspect a vehicle with a fine tooth comb for days or weeks prior to purchase.

perfesser
Dec 4 2013, 01:54 PM
Under caveat emptor, the buyer takes all the risks, as you did when you went so far to purchase a car sight unseen.
I didn't purchase it sight unseen. I don't know where you got that idea from, but at no point did I say that. I requested additional photos and receipts before hand. I ran a CarFax report on it and had the seller email a photo of the title. I bought a round trip bus ticket to Texas (so I could get back in case the of not buying it). Once there with the car in person, I visually inspected the body of the vehicle, the tire tread, looked for frame warp by viewing the lines, I looked at the engine and inspected hoses and wiring. I checked fluid levels and colors. I looked for signs of leaks. I had the seller drive the vehicle with me as passenger (was still learning stick and this way I could see it driven correctly), I also drove it myself.

In other words, I did a "reasonable inspection". Only then did I buy it.

perfesser
Dec 4 2013, 01:54 PM
you should look up the definition of another legal term. "Slander" or in other words - "let the speaker beware".
Wrong law. Slander is for spoken, Liable is for written. In either case, the stated facts must be untrue for it to be liable or slander. Every fact I've written concerning the state of the vehicle has been true, and under first amendment, I am entitled to voice my opinion that fraud was committed. Given the available facts, fraud is a "reasonable" conclusion.
Edited by omniminded, Dec 4 2013, 02:40 PM.
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Murf 59
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The normal bolts for that mount are normally shouldered. Its what should fill the extra void area. Teflon tape I don't think will work. Generally bolts like those that shear off have been loose for sometime. Its good to see you found something. If those bolts are loose, check your other mounts and hardware.
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omniminded


Mr Murf 59
Dec 4 2013, 02:43 PM
The normal bolts for that mount are normally shouldered. Its what should fill the extra void area. Teflon tape I don't think will work. Generally bolts like those that shear off have been loose for sometime. Its good to see you found something. If those bolts are loose, check your other mounts and hardware.


Where can I get the correct "shouldered" bolts? I don't even know what they would be called so I can't do a search for myself without at least the proper search term.

Do you see any problem running with the current replacement bolts (+ Teflon tape) until I have the correct "shouldered" bolts?
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David95237


Those bolts will work fine, the tefflon tape wont help, but the washers will take the place of the shoulder My local True value always has the right metric bolts when i need them.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

omniminded
Dec 4 2013, 02:37 PM
perfesser
Dec 4 2013, 01:54 PM
omniminded
Dec 4 2013, 05:20 AM
truckjohn
Dec 2 2013, 09:43 PM
You own it now... Caveat Emptor...

Caveat Emptor by definition expects "reasonable inspection" before purchase
ummm ... actually caveat emptor is Latin for "let the buyer beware"
Yes, I know it means "buyer beware". I was stating that as part of the "caveat emptor/buyer beware" definition that the buyer is expected to do a "reasonable inspection" before purchase. All law is based upon the principal of "the reasonable person". No reasonable seller would permit, nor would any reasonable buyer inspect a vehicle with a fine tooth comb for days or weeks prior to purchase.

:ermm: I have had multiple car owners give me bizarre looks as I crawled under the car to make sure I saw important areas of the car from a different angle. I understand that a used car purchase, especially in the low end that I play in, is likely to have creative repairs and untouched breakage. I spent an hour or more on a 69 Beetle that was a complete trasher. The wiring was scrambled, parts were missing, interior was almost non existent. The car was only $300 and I went over every part of that car and had very few surprises. The last car my son purchased, the owners watched me crawl under it and asked if I would inspect their next purchase. I found a whole improvised repair to the frame horn/ bumper mount that based on their reaction they had no idea about. They had purchased the car from a friend who had done the repairs and had told them about other more obvious stuff but left the frame horn repair out of the conversation. I always try to find things that look out of place and follow them to their conclusion. The nose of the car just didn't fit quite right and I found all the damage that this guy had hacked at, got close and basically covered up.

Here is the VW I spent an hour inspecting.

Posted Image
VW1 001 by metro_mighty_mouse, on Flickr
Posted Image
VW2 001 by metro_mighty_mouse, on Flickr

This is the first car I purchased, bought it from a mechanic and had a mechanic inspect it before hand. Got 1 year and 10k miles, think he knew it was on it's last leg and I got screwed because the mechanic I had check it out thought it needed a valve job and it was actually much more serious.

Posted Image
Pinto 001 by metro_mighty_mouse, on Flickr
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Woodie
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I see nothing here indicating that the seller new it was like that. He may very well have never looked under there, somebody before him did that shoddy repair.
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3cyltom
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Sounds like you got this figured out. +1 on checking other critical bolts for tightness. and yep owning any "budget" car comes with unseen repairs. dad's rule was always figure on spending at least $100 on any used car purchase right away. all of my metros cost some $ in repairs. i got a auto trans metro currently thats gonna get switched over to stick soon as i get the motivation to start the project. i will soon be stareing at that same shifter. ill check my mounting hardware when i install it.
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omniminded


Alright, so part of the shifter got torn apart when it dropped into the floor.

http://imgur.com/a/Mc36z




What is this thing called???

Posted Image



Here you can see that the center piece came completely apart from it's housing.

Posted Image




I need to replace it, and so I need to know what it's called if someone could kindly assist.
Edited by omniminded, Dec 5 2013, 10:01 AM.
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omniminded


My local Chevy Dealer's Parts guy was able to email a diagram and name the parts...

Posted Image


(5) - part #91172258 manual transmission control lever boot retainer
(8) - part #96067438 manual transmission control lever housing cover
(9) - part #96060293 manual transmission control lever housing
(11) - part #96060294 manual transmission control lever strut plate
(16) - part #96060303 manual transmission control lever lower boot
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3cyltom
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You got a better chance at finding one on here or at a picknpull than getting a new one somewhere. never heard much about one goin to hell before. most likely obsolete at a dealer. time to go junkin.
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