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Considering rebuild of my G10 engine
Topic Started: Dec 9 2013, 02:42 AM (3,261 Views)
omniminded


Metromightymouse
Dec 11 2013, 07:52 AM
omniminded
Dec 11 2013, 03:51 AM
Johnny Mullet
Dec 10 2013, 10:19 PM
You could bring it to my garage (see sig) and it will still be cheaper than all the alternatives unless you do it yourself and are successful.
If we lived closer, but the math of a round trip doesn't bode well. 920 miles one way, 1840 round trip, between 32 and 38 current mpg, gas between $3.05 and $3.55 per gallon according to Gas Buddy, that comes to between $175 and $200 on gas alone. And the last thing I want to do on a questionable engine is travel 920 miles from home and risk getting stranded.
Even considering the math I would suggest giving this some serious thought along with the other options.
I'm not risking getting stranded on route. Period.

truckjohn
Dec 11 2013, 09:06 AM
While you are looking at options - consider a JDM engine... Many low miles engines can be had in the $500-$700 range....

Rebuild wise.... While the Parts may cost less... The Labor certainly doesn't....
I had to Google JDM engine. Would that be "Japanese domestic market" engine? Where would one be obtained?

According to sphencie a good used engine can be had for $200. That's less than for parts.

Labor is certainly a factor, but that which John does is a bargain. He could charge me more, but you could say I get the "Friends and Family" rate. He has a machinist he uses that is supposed to be a fair rate, but I need to get more info on that.
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truckjohn


That is a Japanese domestic market engine....
There are several locator services out there.... I haven't personally done business with any of them yet... but I have read a bunch of folks here who have.... I poked around the web a bit just to see - you can find 35K miles motors for $600 range + shipping.....

You will have to wait for their recommendations on who to go with...

Now.. on standard Junkyard engines... These are 20+ year old cars... Every day that passes makes it more unlikely to find one anymore that's got 50K miles or less on them.... a LOT of these cars in Junkyards 10 years ago were just crushed and sold for scrap when scrap prices were SKY HIGH in the run up to 2008...... I think that it's still the best direction to go for a good quality Core engine as a cheap-rebuild candidate... like say if your block got destroyed or whatever.... Get that JY engine.. Do the Rings and all gaskets/seals - and it's going to be a good engine for several years to come....

It may be worthwhile to look into that... as with the shape of your crank, oil farts, etc - it may be cheaper to find a 100K mile engine, and throw a set of Rings and all gaskets/seals.. and drop it in....

You can drive the car while your buddy completes the rebuild on the bench at his leisure.... THEN drop it in when you have time...

Thanks
Edited by truckjohn, Dec 11 2013, 12:17 PM.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

JDM has almost entirely dried up. http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/suzuki.html is the only source I have seen lately and it is $600 plus shipping. the real mileage is "under" approximately 60K miles. A local JY is where you'll find the cheap motor and you should be looking for something in the 100k mileage range and it should drop in and run for another 80k miles without any major work if it hasn't been abused or damaged. Burnt valves is the most common issue and is easily dealt with. When dropping a JY or used and having sat motor I recommend replacing the cam and crank seals, timing belt, and water pump. Tune up and oil change as well. A parts locator service, even one that appears to be looking for a JDM motor will likely steer you to someone with contracts/ contacts with JYs and they will shop around for the best mileage motors they can find. Likely to be around $500 or so plus shipping but it can vary. Be clear on what you are willing to spend and lay it out for them for the best results. They prefer a business address to ship to as well.

MMM
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Deleted User
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JDM engines are indeed an option.

Keep in mind, they were removed from service because something was wrong with them. It may not be something so wrong that the engine couldn't be returned to service with little or no repair. Different countries have different standards. A lot of people would want you to believe there's absolutely nothing wrong with a JDM engine other than it wouldn't pass some regulatory requirement. It's a used engine. Used engines are not in perfect condition.

If I decided to buy a JDM engine, I would at least give it a no paint and gasket overhaul. Chances are, I would install a new set of piston rings, also. That's just me. It's a hell of a lot easier to work on an engine that's bolted to a stand than it is to work on an engine that's bolted into a car.
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omniminded


truckjohn
Dec 11 2013, 12:08 PM
Now.. on standard Junkyard engines... These are 20+ year old cars... Every day that passes makes it more unlikely to find one anymore that's got 50K miles or less on them.... a LOT of these cars in Junkyards 10 years ago were just crushed and sold for scrap when scrap prices were SKY HIGH in the run up to 2008...... I think that it's still the best direction to go for a good quality Core engine as a cheap-rebuild candidate... like say if your block got destroyed or whatever.... Get that JY engine.. Do the Rings and all gaskets/seals - and it's going to be a good engine for several years to come....

It may be worthwhile to look into that... as with the shape of your crank, oil farts, etc - it may be cheaper to find a 100K mile engine, and throw a set of Rings and all gaskets/seals.. and drop it in....

You can drive the car while your buddy completes the rebuild on the bench at his leisure.... THEN drop it in when you have time...
I like the direction of this idea.

Get a Pick N Pull engine and instead of bare minimum, to take the time to research and save up for a good rebuild/recondition/overhaul. I like that it allows me to keep driving while the rebuild is done and then just install it in a day (I'm guessing).

I was initially concerned about pulling the JY engine apart, but if done right in the yard, it allows a thourough inspection before actually buying the engine. If Pick N Pull can notify me right when they get a car, it means less time sitting exposed and better chance to assess the vehicle. Once people begin tearing parts off, assessment gets more difficult, like say if the Odometer is missing.

I checked their pricing here: http://www.picknpull.com/part_pricing.aspx?LocationID=108&Language=English&NavItem=4&SearchCriteria=&#partpricing

$139.99 Long Block + $29.99 Core Deposit = $170 ($187'ish maximum after tax)
$109.99 Short Block + $19.99 Core Deposit = $130 ($143'ish maximum after tax)

So this then begs the question, being that it would be a used engine, what would make it so damaged that it was beyond repair and completely unusable?

It also still is cost dependent.
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Mythstae
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omniminded
Dec 11 2013, 06:53 PM
So this then begs the question, being that it would be a used engine, what would make it so damaged that it was beyond repair and completely unusable?
If it got starved for oil and had a connecting rod break and punch a hole in the case...
I mean, that one's kind of the obvious answer, but somebody had to say it...
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omniminded


Mythstae
Dec 11 2013, 07:10 PM
omniminded
Dec 11 2013, 06:53 PM
So this then begs the question, being that it would be a used engine, what would make it so damaged that it was beyond repair and completely unusable?
If it got starved for oil and had a connecting rod break and punch a hole in the case...
I mean, that one's kind of the obvious answer, but somebody had to say it...
Yes. holes=bad :smackface

What about things like warping, wall thickness, or some other not so obvious but critical problem?
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patrickbruce
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average teenage gearhead

warping would be the one of the most important.... also, the journals that the camshaft rides in are very important. If they are scratched or have any obvious damage, I wouldn't use the head.
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Deleted User
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There are many reasons that cars arrive at the junk yard. Generally speaking, they're there because the car is beyond economical repair. Most people will spend money on tires and brakes. They will not spend money on much of anything beyond that, especially if they're not able to do the work themselves. Engines and transmissions repairs put a vehicle into the beyond economical repair category.

The chances of finding a 20 year old engine in a junk yard that is serviceable as removed from the vehicle are absolutely zero.

You might find a good core, if you know what you're looking for.

Generally speaking, if the camshaft bearing surfaces are good, and there's no holes in the side of the block, you'll have a good core.

If the engine has never been "overhauled", it will be in so much better condition that if anyone has ever molested worked on it.


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3tech
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Geo Glenn
Dec 11 2013, 01:37 PM
JDM engines are indeed an option.

Keep in mind, they were removed from service because something was wrong with them.
The cost of keeping older cars on the road in Japan can be very expensive, with taxes and inspections. This is why you see so many of these cars either scrapped or exported with not very high mileage.
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Johnny Mullet
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Fear the Mullet

3tech
Dec 11 2013, 08:38 PM
Geo Glenn
Dec 11 2013, 01:37 PM
JDM engines are indeed an option.

Keep in mind, they were removed from service because something was wrong with them.
The cost of keeping older cars on the road in Japan can be very expensive, with taxes and inspections. This is why you see so many of these cars either scrapped or exported with not very high mileage.
Mike is right. I think once a car get like 30K on them, they get scrapped. Makes you wonder if they were maintained at all though :hmm
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Coche Blanco
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Troll Certified

Johnny Mullet
Dec 11 2013, 08:48 PM
3tech
Dec 11 2013, 08:38 PM
Geo Glenn
Dec 11 2013, 01:37 PM
JDM engines are indeed an option.

Keep in mind, they were removed from service because something was wrong with them.
The cost of keeping older cars on the road in Japan can be very expensive, with taxes and inspections. This is why you see so many of these cars either scrapped or exported with not very high mileage.
Mike is right. I think once a car get like 30K on them, they get scrapped. Makes you wonder if they were maintained at all though :hmm
I sure as hell wouldn't. I *might* change the oil once.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

Check the JY warranty, most guarantee it won't knock or smoke which implies it will bolt in and go.
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evintho


It is possible to find a 'useable' engine at Pick-N-Pull. Once you pull it, it's very easy to pull the pan, then some rod and main caps to check bearing wear. Look for major scratches in the cylinders, cracked pistons, obvious holes or broken pieces, the aforementioned cam saddles, etc. Burned valves are pretty common, too. Give it a thorough inspection and try to determine why it wound up in the yard. You're obviously not gonna find a pristine motor but you should be able to find something that'll run for awhile.

Stuff's out there. I was looking for a decent head at Pick-N-Pull and came across this unit that had just had some new valves installed, been decked and had a ton of work done. $40!

Also, it'd be well worth your while to sign up for Pick-N-Pull's Tool Kit Rewards program. It's free! They have several days each years with 50% and 1/3 off sales for members only along with 20% off different selected parts each week! They also send you coupons for free admission and $20 off coupons all the time! They just had a members only half off sale 2 weeks ago.

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Deleted User
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:gp

You've got to be careful at the junkyard. The largest majority of the heads that have had some work done to them that I have seen have damaged camshaft bearing surfaces. Damaged camshaft bearing surfaces is one of the major causes of oil farts. The damage is repairable, but not really worth it.

The highest percentage of Geo Metro engines that have never had the head off of the engine have perfect camshaft bearing surfaces.

You'll get an eye for what engines have had head work. Check for heads that are cleaner than the rest of the engine. You'll also notice the poorly fitting Fel-Pro, or other brand, distributor case gasket. The blue printing on Fel-Pro head gaskets is not hard to spot on the front corner by the timing cover.

Pop the valve cover off, remove the camshaft bearing caps, and take a good look before you get all excited about a divine find at the junkyard. Those cars are there for a reason.
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