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self adjusting airdam/ grill block.....in progress!!!
Topic Started: May 4 2014, 03:55 PM (2,308 Views)
faygoninja


trying to keep it simple. you come up with something else and i'll take a look, if i think i can do it too then ill try it :)
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evmetro


rbell2915
May 18 2014, 09:46 PM
Why not control it thermally?
As the engine is cold, the block is shut.
As it heats up, it will automatically open at varying degrees (angles, not temperature) until it cools down again. In which case it will fully close at operating temp.
In theory, you won't have to do anything to control it as it's self-adjusted by the engine.
That is genius. I have been scratching my head on this for a long time, and a thermally controlled grill block never even entered my mind.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

And here is how to do it (assuming you can find the parts). Air cooled VW's had a bellows that was used to open the air flaps to allow full cooling air to the engine. The bellows pulled a rod or a cable when it opened from the heat of the engine. If you can find one of the bellows and a good spot to mount it so it gets hot enough to open then you just need a way to route a cable to your flap to open it.

Here is one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-AirCooled-Beetle-Thermostat-Fits-All-Type-1-Engines-Prt-111119159A-/230916379635?

And here is a place with a few options.
http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/thermostat_new_used_rebuilt.html
Edited by Metromightymouse, May 19 2014, 07:45 AM.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Or ... how about a door opening solenoid attached to the fan? Fan comes on when the engine gets hot. Then the door opens when the engine gets hot.

Or ... someone might want to figure out how to work a sensor in the Fan Thermo Switch circuit to activate the door before the 208 Deg. F switch activates the fan. A little cooling before the fan comes on. :hmm
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faygoninja


My main concern is aero. Second not killing my engine. I want a little an opening as possible while at high speeds. If a port opened fully to cool the engine at 50 plus my goal would be shot. Someone try this though!
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

VW bellows thermostat is progressive, it would just be a matter of finding the spot that heats it at the appropriate time so the flap opens as it warms up and hits full open just before the fan kicks on. That is what you should be shooting for to reduce wear on parts.
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rbell2915
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Fiero
[ *  *  * ]
evmetro
May 18 2014, 10:29 PM
rbell2915
May 18 2014, 09:46 PM
Why not control it thermally?
As the engine is cold, the block is shut.
As it heats up, it will automatically open at varying degrees (angles, not temperature) until it cools down again. In which case it will fully close at operating temp.
In theory, you won't have to do anything to control it as it's self-adjusted by the engine.
That is genius. I have been scratching my head on this for a long time, and a thermally controlled grill block never even entered my mind.
Thank you :)
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evmetro


The progressive thermally controlled set up would probably be nicer on the engine. In my testing, I observed the temperature going up and down more than 10 degrees about every two minutes with the full grill block and the radiator fan controlling the temp. This heating up and cooling down cycle will beat the crap out of an engine. With no block, the engine rarely cycled more than two degrees difference, and the fan rarely cycling on. I am interested in the aero benefits, engine temp, and consistent temperature. This is why progressive thermally control sounds appealing to me. My brain is still processing what exactly to build.. Sometimes it takes months to process since I always have dozens of these puzzles in my head at the same time. Most of the time, solutions just appear in my head when I am working on something else, kind of like being dealt the right card in a card game. Some of the puzzles never get solved at all.
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rbell2915
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Fiero
[ *  *  * ]
Could you get a sensor, and place it before the thermostat?
Say, hypothetically, it [the new sensor] opens at 10°s before the thermostat does. When the first one opens, it sends a signal to the electric arms on the grill block and tells them to open up. They do.
Then the second, original, thermostat opens and cools the engine down. Once the engine is cooled down, both thermostats close, and a signal is sent to close the grill block.
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faygoninja


ok so i think im getting what you guys are asking for. i know this isnt the right thing as it needs 5v and 12v to work but its in the direction that you're heading. the "fans" would be a servo to open and close the block. again i know this wouldnt work but its getting in the area of what you want. i looked at bbq grill thermo controllers and the are way too expensive but have the heat range we would like to see, well, nothing above 210 :)


thermo controller for cooler fans (preset temp)
Edited by faygoninja, May 19 2014, 11:11 PM.
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freegeo
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Have you thought of something like this. It is an adjustable fan controller kit.

http://www.northernautoparts.com/part/le-16759

Push the probe into the radiator and instead of it turning on a fan it could actuate a electrical device to open and close the flap. It is adjustable so you can try and tweak it where to want it. I bought one of these or something like it when I put a electric fan on my truck to get better heat in the winter time.
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faygoninja


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so this is where im at now on this. working with the weights to get the flap to act accordingly. no third stage as of yet
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myredvert
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myredvert

How far below the stock bumper does that extend?
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faygoninja


only a few inches. maybe three. its flat though, so it keeps a lot of air from going under the car. i see about 5-6 initial mpg gain on my first trip with the flap working correctly. no difference in max temp
Edited by faygoninja, Jul 6 2014, 06:53 PM.
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faygoninja


had to paint it black
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and the LED turn signals
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