Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Posted ImageWelcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are features you can't use and images you can't see. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Join our community!




Username:   Password:
Add Reply
2 years of torment!; timing issues?
Topic Started: May 30 2014, 12:58 PM (5,729 Views)
nixmixin
Member Avatar


Thank you for all the help guys. I really value the tips. Been wrenching on this thing every day for 4 days now and all day today in between my posts here.

Since my last post, I did put the timing belt back to stock marked settings. I was able to somehow get the timing light to show between 8 and 10 DBTDC now, (still totally maxed out in the "advance" direction). but....it still bogged like crazy under load and even just revving it when in neutral. This timing light reading was with the distributor vacuum line plugged and the correct jumper in place as well. After I removed the plug and jumper and reconnected the distributor vacuum line, the timing light was reading near 20 DBTDC. Another odd thing THIS time is that the RPM stayed up around 1300 even after the motor was warmed up and I revved the engine. Still doesn't vary though.
More information to take into account...
Wicked stinky exhaust now, not smokey, just strong. It looked like my car "sharted" onto my garage floor?! Black carbon spray from the tailpipe. I did visually check the supply line where I had deleted the old OEM fuel filter and everything was straight through as I had left it. No kinks, cracks or anything visibly wrong there.

Big Rhino, I hadn't considered the return line/pressure buildup scenario. It sound plausible and I will definitely dive into that theory as well as hook up the fuel pressure gauge too and gather more data there.

Hanuman, wow! I completely overlooked the separation of valve timing vs. ignition timing somehow. I will do the pen-dip check tomorrow as well to see where that all stands. As for the 2 sensors, I replaced both of them too about 2 years ago back when I was originally trying to kill this problem. I don't know about their being within spec or not, but I do know that if they aren't wired right, they will through codes/check engine light come on. Thus far, no codes still and no lights. I remember testing them back then, and they were within spec.

I took a crap-ton of pics and a couple of videos today and need to figure out how to edit the video a bit and will post up what I have in the hopes I am missing something.

Thanks again guys. Keep the guidance coming...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nixmixin
Member Avatar


After watching the videos I took, I don't think they will do anything for diagnostics. Just me trying to show the reading of the timing mark on the crank shaft. The pic are pretty dull too. Just showing that I lined up the timing marks correctly. ...

calling it a night. ...

:zzz
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
David95237


FyI Member Evmetro has a shop in gold River, just down the street. He may be able to help you out.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nixmixin
Member Avatar


David95237
May 30 2014, 11:29 PM
FyI Member Evmetro has a shop in gold River, just down the street. He may be able to help you out.
I just sent him a PM. Thanks. Gold River is literally 20 minutes from my house. :)
Hope he responds soon.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Woodie
Member Avatar


After Evmetro gets done with your car it will have plenty of power and look fantastic.

It'll only go 50 miles though.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nixmixin
Member Avatar


Drove it this morning. Same as before. Ran great til it warmed up. With the idea that the sensors aren't giving the right info to the ECU and therefore the car thinking it is cold ALL the time and running way rich after warm up, I realized this is very likely as I drove it. It makes complete since. The warmer it is outside combined with the hot engine, the ECU should having the car way lean then. I can literally Smell the unburned fuel from tailpipe, the hotter that combo is! I am running ohm test on the ECT and IAT to see what their range readings are.
There is also a strong chance that 1 or both of those sensor wires got flipped. Will that make a difference if the terminal of these sensor are flipped? Isn't it just a resistance reading?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
91 ragtop
Member Avatar


I've never heard of jumpering that plug on a vaccum advanced distributor. Just pull the lines and plug them.



Ken.........
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Memphis metro


91 ragtop
May 31 2014, 07:18 PM
I've never heard of jumpering that plug on a vaccum advanced distributor. Just pull the lines and plug them.



Ken.........

^o)
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
john.
Elite Member
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
check fuel pressure? when it's acting up
Edited by john., May 31 2014, 09:20 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Old Man


make sure your fuel return system is working correctly. If it gets plugged and/or is restricting the fuel return someway then it will cause more fuel thru the injector
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nixmixin
Member Avatar


91 ragtop
May 31 2014, 07:18 PM
I've never heard of jumpering that plug on a vaccum advanced distributor. Just pull the lines and plug them.



Ken.........
I totally agree with you. The jumper didn't do anything at all that I could tell. But it was in the Hayne's Manual.
updates from today's efforts:
I check the wires to see if I had flipped them. No such luck. My idle seams to stay around the 1300 RPM mark and the idle adjustment screw is all the way in. The test results of the IAC and ECTS showed that they are functioning correctly. I tested them at several temperatures. All of them were well within the normal ranges. However, I did start to hear a "hiss" after the car warmed up. I checked all the vacuum lines and sprayed carb cleaner and found no leaks??? Then I pinched the Idle Air Control vacuum line...Idle dropped WAAAY down instantly and the hiss disappeared! So, I will be testing and digging into that ( http://geometroforum.com/single/?p=632384&t=4754158 ) after I each some dinner.

Side note. When I setup the timing light & plug the distributor vacuum line and the car is cold, My timing is around 8 DBTDC. But, after the car warms up and nothing has changed, including the idle speed, the timing reads around 2 DBTDC?

Side Note 2: I also pinched the fuel return line after the car was warmed up and that REALLY dropped the RPM and almost killed the motor! I saw something about the fuel pressure regulator as a possible culprit?...

I don't see how the IACV would have anything to do with it running crappy/rich after it warms up though.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
91 ragtop
Member Avatar


Timing should be set when the engine is warmed up and in closed loop mode.


Ken.........
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
evmetro


Sorry I came to this thread so late... A couple of thoughts here. First, it is a bit of a gmf tradition to post your compression results when asking for any kind of diagnostic advice, even if the results do not seem relevant to the situation. It also sounded like you were running out of room to rotate your distributor; did you try pulling it out and moving the shaft to the next tooth? I suspect that there is something not right about your timing if you are having trouble getting your engine to run right with the belt in the right position and the distributor body sitting where it is supposed to be. I would love to have you come by the shop one day this week after 5 so i can take look.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
truckjohn


The symptom of running great Cold and like crap Warm tells you something.... It's probably a key...

When it's cold - your engine runs in "Open loop" - which means it doesn't respond to engine temperature or O2 sensor... The EGR also does NOT activate at all. It basically runs off a fuel map with throttle position.

That being the case - I would look into the things that the engine reads when it's warmed up that it DOES NOT read/activate when the engine is cold....
O2 sensor
Cannister purge
Engine temperature
EGR
What else?

On your O2 sensor... You can wipe those things out in about 10 seconds if you put it in wrong or run the wrong type of Carb Cleaners through the engine... so don't count it out.

Your Voltmeter and FSM is going to be your friend... Test and verify things are working...

Thanks
Edited by truckjohn, Jun 1 2014, 04:17 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ranger88den
Elite Member
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Just a thought, but, if you have centrifugal advance, as well as vacuum advance, are the weights moving, and is the spring pressure correct? Also, agree with restabbing the distributor. Good luck.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Engine Tech & Diagnostics · Next Topic »
Add Reply