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The WOLF CUB (1993 Suzuki Swift/Metro)
Topic Started: Jun 25 2014, 03:15 PM (14,624 Views)
ZXTjato
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bass heads

some times if i get some funny sounds from the rear and i am not sure if its bearings or brakes try going in reverse and hitting the brakes. helps brake the custys off
Edited by ZXTjato, Oct 21 2015, 06:24 PM.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

Stubby79
Oct 21 2015, 10:07 AM
68custom
Oct 21 2015, 09:50 AM
don't they have problems with the woodruff keys and the bolt/bolts sheering of or something like that? I have seen a few guys rig them with a couple of welds. not an endorsement of welding BTW.
Should only happen if someone forgets to tighten down the crank pulley/timing gear bolt properly, then drives with it like that.
Also the accessory belt wouldn't be turning if the crank gear wasn't turning. Most likely the timing belt is broken at the bottom or all the teeth have sheared off and there isn't anything for the gear to grab.
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

And the thing I won't know until I tear into it is if the cam bearings are seized up or so tight for one reason or another that it's tearing up timing belts one after another.

Okay: It seems reasonable at this time to start shopping for a complete engine rebuild kit including coolant pump, oil pump, main, rod, and cam bearings, full gasket set, thermostat, a complete set of all twelve essential sensors (!) *because they may not all be bad but they are equally old, new engine and transaxle mounts, and I saw where House of Kolor had a line of Engine Paints that match body skin colors (which I had planned eventually to be HOK00058 Cobalt Blue).

It's no longer a case of stumbling from one problem to another, I have to suspect every part of this machine now, anything less is foolish and just begging for trouble.

~ It sure didn't look like it was oiling right at all, and that's an indication that should not be ignored.

There should have been RIVERS of oil under the valve cover...
Edited by Greywolf, Oct 21 2015, 03:19 PM.
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68custom


maybe it has something to do with the sweetening of the tank?
that is an 8 valve 4 cylinder right?
Edited by 68custom, Oct 21 2015, 05:20 PM.
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

8 valve OHC 4Cyl, the rockers are similar to Chevy Sprint breakdowns in the cheesy manuals I work with.

The oil looked clean, but may have been changed after whatever happened. If "That Stuff" was driven past the rings by blow-by gasses it could have done just about anything depending on how much got past. That's another real good point on the side of "Just Rebuild It".

The first move would be to farm out the block, head, crank, cam, rods and pistons to a machine shop so that it could all be tanked, miked, and the bearings ordered by the machinist who did the work.

For all I know the valve guides may need replacing too - but I doubt any of the castings are cracked or warped because the oil would have been a serious mess if that were so.

Since you brought that up I think what I'm going to do is move in the direction of pulling the mill with or without the transaxle.

* I know a way to support the transaxle without the engine in place.

*6Jan2016: I have almost enough antifreeze jugs and am bringing an engine stand into the house.
Edited by Greywolf, Jan 6 2016, 01:59 PM.
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

Edited by Greywolf, Jan 16 2016, 11:45 PM.
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snowfish
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Basic GearHead

Glad to see you going after it again. :rocker Take Plenty of Still pictures before disassembly. Every angle and then some. Pictures during disassembly are very helpful too. You can't take too many. :shake

Pulling as a complete assembly makes those hard to access fasteners much easier to reach. Be sure to have lots of zip locks to bag and label everything. Nothing gets lost this way. I like to label the hoses & where the attach as well. Same with the wiring connectors. Then a year later, you'll know where everything is supposed to go. :news

Thanks for the update. :cheers
Edited by snowfish, Jan 17 2016, 12:02 PM.
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Memphis metro


Well, I take it you did not win the Lottery.

Have you done any research as to availability of parts to rebuild that engine? Just curious, what machine shop do you have in mind for the work? A lot less options available in Memphis then there used to be in years past. Most of the good builders have closed up and moved on. Do you know of any good builders in Covington?
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68custom


keep chipping away at it!
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nwgeo


Hang in there GW. Thanks for the utube updates... nice. I am a cheap son of a gun, I would just take the timing cover off and check if the key is just missing or messed up on the crank below... but that is just me. Nice pretty crank cover. Nice to be able to work inside with creature comforts.
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

Thanx, all. The YT vids are a thing I wanted to get into for a long time, seems a lot easier to explain things than a shot at a time. The trade off is that there is so much to learn about vid editing...

I was thinking Sandy Walker of Walkers Engine Service on Jackson Ave because he's been at it for decades and I've actually been to his shop and seen all the wide variety of engines he machines for people there. It would not be strange to see a V-12 block waiting for pickup right next to block and heads for a flathead ford in his shop.

I'll be doing my own assembly, but a reliable machine shop with that kind of experience is a treasure.

I got no where today, don't know why but I just woke up way too late, it was cold out, and I couldn't get my body to shift out of park - every time I made a move toward the coffee pot I dropped off into a snooze.

I have to get "The Suitcase" at least out of the car and into the teardown phase before it gets seriously cold out. Rain and snow can happen in the next eight weeks, and after that there's a two month window before "HOT&NASTY" come back to this area.

On 'Tagging and Bagging' ziplocks are king, small snack sized bags are good to put a file card into with notes and an identification of what bolts and other parts are in the bag the "INFO Bag" are dropped into. Putting the file card in a small ziplock like that keeps the paper from getting oily, making it easy to read and write more stuff on. I use gallon size ziplocks for most everything with the info baggy inside them. The big baggies can then be put into a box of some kind to keep it all gathered together.

I really want to do some creative re-routing of the wires because the main wire bundle runs under the intake on the back of the engine which makes it hard to get to, gets in the way of other things back under there, and subjects them to all of the heat and vibration of the running engine.

Something else I could wish for is a cannon-plug type connector that will allow all of the engine wires to be disconnected at one plug when pulling the engine instead of having to snake the whole harness out after finding every single connection on the engine - including the main engine ground tie point on the back of the intake manifold.

There IS a rebuild kit, in fact several, out there that both does and does NOT include an oil pump. Some ask you what size engine bearings you need, and you can't know that until the machine shop gets done. The normal (and best) way to get a lot of the parts together is to authorize the machine shop that mills your block, head, crank, and cam (if the cam is still useable) to do the ordering for bearings, pistons, rings, the oil pump, and any guides or valves that need to be replaced. They will know exactly what size is needed, based on how far they had to go over or under. This also avoids delays; if they do the work, tell you all the sizes and let you do the shopping (and God forbid we goof on something) it means an extra week or more before the block and head come back.

Letting the machinist order and install all the necessaries eliminates the wait and removes the chance of mistakes.

What is left after that?

Since the machine shop will deal with the basic fitment and probably include a new oil pump that they approve of we really are only looking at a water pump, a full set of gaskets, A NEW FRONT TRANSMISSION/TRANSAXLE SEAL (*Mandatory, IMHO. New Engine - New gearbox seal. Why do it later?), plugs, new plug wires, oil filters (2 of. One for break in, one to replace the break in filter), new thermostat (Because...), NEW RADIATOR CAP (Again: BECAUSE). CAP/ROTOR (even EFI/ECU engines have them, and they get old and carbon tracked)

I want to replace all twelve sensors on the engine because any one of them are either bad or going to be soon, ditch them now and I can skip over those hassles too.

New belts. New hoses. New lines.

A new alternator and starter are a move I want to make now also.

I don't know if the A/C compressor is any good, it may be. Before I go there I want to have a new receiver/drier and orifice tube ready to install (Don't know if it has an orifice tube like a ford or a valve) and a complete set of A/C seals for all the A/C lines and fittings. The A/C will be a totally separate adventure. Hopefully the YDP that used to own the car was scared of Air Conditioners and didn't touch it.

* Thinking about the O2 sensor, I saw a youtube video about a little goodie that I think I want to add. I'll break at this point and see if I can find that video
Edited by Greywolf, Jan 18 2016, 12:53 AM.
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

Otay - the thing about this item is that it tells you where you are at in terms of air and fuel ratio with a direct readout mini-gauge that can be mounted anywhere. Some welding is required because it calls for mounting the sensor into the collector of whatever exhaust system you have, very similar to an O2 sensor for a catalytic convertor equipped vehicle of any kind.

Because the air/fuel ratio of any engine that runs on gas is much the same, it will work as well on a Geo as it will on a Pontiac, Cadillac, Ford, or anything else you want to keep tabs on the fuel use and wastage of. Shown in this video is a big ol' fat Camaro pavement stripper - but for a Metro, Swift, or any high mileage project it seems to me this is an ideal toy to add to the box.



When the guy in the vid mentions "STOIC" what he's referring to is the ideal air and fuel ratio. Monitoring that in a Geo or Swift can tell you if you have a problem caused by clogged injectors, misfiring, loss of spark through bad insulation on plug wires, or any of a number of things.

The bottom line is that if you have a badly running machine, this little gauge can point you in the right direction - whether it's a fuel issue maybe, or an ignition malfunction, eyeballing what is actually coming out of the exhaust can give you a heads up that something isn't quite right before you lose a valve over it...

And nobody wants to lose their head, right? Especially on a long road trip.


*Personal note: I've been listening to where and how music is used in this video to keep it light and moving along. There are a lot of things about videos I never payed any attention to before, like the preview of what the video was about before they went into detail. This is a well made video. ~GW
Edited by Greywolf, Jan 18 2016, 12:22 AM.
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

But anyway (anywhere...) once I have it out I can go through it and I bet I find that the cam has a spun bearing if not all of them from lack of oil. The rest of the story will soon be told, and it gets interesting when you have a thing like this, and a pretty good idea of how things are supposed to work, as you find one thing after another like clues in a mystery or detective novel that tell the story of exactly what happened.

Automotive archeology, whatever. I have begun to think of myself as Chief Suzuki Inspector Clouseau...

"There is no need to thank me"


Weather and motivation permitting, this story shall continue to unfold. I was planning to get rid of the carpet in the den regardless


~CIAO
Edited by Greywolf, Jan 18 2016, 12:48 AM.
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Memphis metro


I myself have had a couple of bad experiences with walkers. They have been there a long time but after what I have gone thru with him I will never go there again or suggest anyone else to. One of my employers used to get their shortblocks from him and I have installed quite a few of them. Some of those experienced issues that fell back on his engine work. My worst experience with him was not thru work but my own personal dealings with him on a full rebuild. This rare occasion, I opted to let them do it all. Took them the vehicle and let them pull it and rebuild it and reinstall it. It was all on them. What a nightmare it was too. I found out the man is untrustworthy and does not make good on his service should something go south. I know my situation was a pain for him as much as for me but he is the one who dropped the ball on the engine work. If the vehicle that got his engine had not been wrecked very very soon afterwards (like a week after the engine job) of no fault of the driver and the insurance reinbursed me for the engine work I was in the process of carrying him to court over the matter. He lucked out by that happening and only lost my future business. I as well as him actually came out good on the deal since it got wrecked. I will drive to Nashville if I have too before I trust him again. I know of two more people who had bad experiences with him as well. It is a shame all the good people in Memphis are long gone considering there used to be so many and they stood behind their work too. I never had a issue with a Conlee engine when they were in business. I guess these throw away cars and alluminum engines caused most to close up. Good luck to you if you deal with him but be warned. You might get lucky and get something done right. It does happen occasionally but if it goes bad then be ready for misery and the run around. By all means, make sure he gives you a detailed receipt for whatever he does just in case you find yourself needing to go to court over it to get your money back.

Might be worth noting, there are some complaints at the bbb and the business is not a member of the bbb. I did not file a complaint but should have. I never thought about it and after it getting wrecked and paid for it it was all behind me after that. I only regret he was not made accountable. I got my money and left it at that.
http://www.bbb.org/memphis/business-reviews/auto-repair-services/walkers-engine-service-in-memphis-tn-31001331/complaints

Here is one complaint on a facebook page concerning walkers,

(Andrew Sneller I'm glad he did yall right. I had a bad experience it took him over 6 months to balance my bottom end the tried to raise the price on me after the 5th time he told me it will be done. Dad and I literally had to stand over him while he put it together because it still wasn't done after he called and said it was.)

The man cannot be trusted. Unfortunately I know not of any existing builders left besides this guy in Memphis. Never the less, no more from me.
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

Wow, bud - that's brand new info to me. But then - I don't let transmission guys do tune ups, I don't have machinists do assembly. They are different schools of effort.

Huh...

I may have to go with whoever my friend across the street uses, whoever that might be. He knows far more people with machine shops than I do, he was brought up here and I was not. When it reaches that point I'll post up and we can boot his recommend around. There's at least one guy who was working out of his garage at home, but I think he quit it over health issues, hassles and drama. David Grey I think, and he was a for real machinist, just retired and couldn't leave it alone.

One thing is absolutely sure though: NO CRATE ENGINES! Not from "UH-OH Zone", not from anywhere. I trust me, I don't trust helicoiled wreckage from the places parts houses deal with. Been down that road, and it wasn't pretty...

Somewhere around here I may still have the papers for a mill I got through A-Zone in Norfolk Virginia to drop into an F100 I no longer have. I had to extract a helicoil from one of the heads because it was the wrong size thread for the intake manifold bolts!

And that was on a brand new reman long block that ran me $900... This is why I have a pair of seasoned smallblock 351's in the back of my shop waiting for machining, because I know they haven't been butchered by anybody. When I can collect rebuildable iron I stash it for later attention. I have an "M" from a job I did for a navy Corpsman who got in over his head, and a "W" out of an old county truck I did some horsetrading to get my hands on. (Briefly: I 'offed' a heap of smoking diesel into the lap of a guy who had no idea what he had)

Funny - I traded an '85 F250 6.9 diesel dually flatbed that was over 400K miles and still running for a one ton chassis with that engine on it. The guy scrapped the dually instead of doing anything with it, and I have a seasoned Windsor out of the deal after selling the chassis to somebody who wanted to build a tow truck with that frame. He may have got a few hunnerd for the scrap weight of that dually, but windsors are getting rare as lizards tits these days (hens teeth, whatever...) and I got it away from the guy before he tore it down & ruined anything.


Back on topic: Yeah.

I'll have a word with Dee and see what he says.


The temp outdoors dived right down to thirty even, and I did get the stand brought into the place, but I can see that mother nature is not on my side in this. I have had to work on wheels when my hands actually stuck to the metal I touched and I never want to go there again! It sucks...

But historically the coldest day on average here is on January tenth, after that it gradually warms even though snow never falls until next month. I feel like I am lagging, and I better get my butt in gear and get past this.
Edited by Greywolf, Jan 18 2016, 10:33 PM.
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