Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are features you can't use and images you can't see. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: Join our community! |
| The WOLF CUB (1993 Suzuki Swift/Metro) | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 25 2014, 03:15 PM (14,632 Views) | |
| Greywolf | Mar 23 2015, 12:28 PM Post #76 |
|
Mostly Harmless
![]()
|
Finally put power on the car, mixed results. PLUSSES: Fuel system works, probably need to run sea foam or Berrymans through it to clean the lines. Turn signals work, I think. At least the flasher does. Ventilator fan works... Brakes feel very solid, no pedal loss New tires have no more air leaks The fuel gauge reads accurately INDETERMINATE: The coolant temp gauge went all the way to the hot side, with no coolant in it yet (?) Minusses: Turns over very slow, does not fire off. I think this is mainly due to bad connections, dirty grounds, etc. Also a bad injector in the upper T-Body, like I thought. I'm going to do some cleaning and connector work on it. Turning it over at least should have worked some oil up into passages that have not seen oil in over three years - I cranked it, let it sit for a while, cranked it again, etc... For this reason. I think that very little current flow was in part due to using jumper cables from a battery next to the car, so I am going to temporarily put a battery IN IT that is far too big for it. That way I'll have a complete fit between the battery posts and cables at least for further testing and troubleshooting. The battery cable ends that are in it are going to be replaced, period. I may go so far as to fabricate my own ground cable because I don't like the looks of what is in there. *It is warm enough and dry enough now to get back outside and be doing things, and it's about time I showed progress on this toy. IT DID NOT BLOW UP WHEN THE KEY WAS TURNED - which was my biggest concern. I still think electric items have no business in a gas tank... More to follow |
![]() |
|
| idmetro | Mar 23 2015, 12:39 PM Post #77 |
![]()
|
An incredibly important result!!!
|
![]() |
|
| ZXTjato | Mar 23 2015, 12:41 PM Post #78 |
|
bass heads
![]()
|
yea dude wheres our updates i love your DIY approach to things keep it up man.
|
![]() |
|
| Greywolf | Mar 23 2015, 02:52 PM Post #79 |
|
Mostly Harmless
![]()
|
I been getting rained out, snowed under, sick, and frozen down - this is the first nice weather to come along. I THINK - that the oven cleaner approach to cleaning the engine compartment was a very bad idea. When I finally got the chance to pop the hood again I saw signs that it failed to all rinse away, there was aluminum salt on the transaxle and elsewhere. The ground wire from the battery to the engine/transaxle was rusty looking, and this tells me power isn't flowing with the energy it could be, even if enough was applied. (CORROSION creates resistance) It's an unhappy thing all around, I wonder about the connections on the starter, which until the ground dries and I can jack it up I can't even see..... Best "Order of Combat" I suppose is to take one thing at a time. Wires first, and while I am at it get rid of any rust on the place under the battery tray (that I rounded up bolts to mount) and paint that place. STIPULATED!!! I should pull the alternator, but if it fails I will put a new one in, why fight it? YOU CAN'T CLEAN AND POLISH A PIECE OF It just makes everything stinky... But this - it is now becoming "PARTY WEATHER" 'Mano, there is no better time in life to tinker with a thing, and see what it does, is there? I know, I know, I have to get on the road again. But I need to ride right, and short cuts now will bite later. I worry about the starter too, and if this will eat me up in parts money. But I have SEEN the inside of this engine when I took the head off, and the piston clearances have A LOT OF LIFE left in them. It's clean, not all ate up. There wasn't even a ridge ring in the cylinders, I checked for that first of all so I could judge how old the engine had gotten. It is both a curse and a blessing that the kid who had this before was as stupid as could be. He killed it before he could ruin it completely.... But now it is mine, and you will see it at first hand before I am done! Arizona and Neuva Mexico are places that have always fascinated my imagination, and I am building this to travel as far as I can go.... Along with "WOOLA" - my Red Puppy from MARS ![]() *As I think on it, I should replace the starter and alternator with NEW on General Principles. Why wait for them to fail? Start with new and be confident... The Mojave is a bad place to be disappointed Edited by Greywolf, Mar 23 2015, 03:24 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| ZXTjato | Mar 24 2015, 01:20 AM Post #80 |
|
bass heads
![]()
|
i lived in utah for 20 years of my life and Arizona is quite an odd place, the cactus have personality the mountains are harsh and unforgiving the sun sets are amazing and the harsh climate is something out of this world. if you ever come to Arizona i would love to go for a drive, i could show you some of my favorite places to drive and great places to see off the beaten path |
![]() |
|
| Greywolf | Mar 25 2015, 09:46 AM Post #81 |
|
Mostly Harmless
![]()
|
OTAY... After cleaning the ground connections, and mounting a WAY oversize battery in it temporarily, it turned over with something more like the authority that it is supposed to. I gave it quite a few whiffs of starting fluid, and the consensus is that the fuel injector is not fuel injecting.... Now I have an issue. I know for sure I can order a new or rebuilt injector. The manuals I have all claim you don't replace that, you replace the entire Upper Throttle Body, which sounds to me like: "Watch us sell a much more expensive part to these suckers than they need" But they also claim that the fuel pressure regulator in the UTB is calibrated at the factory somehow, which also sounds like a load of poop! From what I see just looking it over, the FPR comes out at the same time as the Injector, they share fasteners. I don't have a detailed diagram of this thing either. I'm going to shout out to a nearby AUTOZONE store and see if they have anything like the right parts for it and how ungodly much they want to rip me off for them... IF they have a complete UTB, and IF it doesn't cost more than the car (I shelled $200 for the whole car originally) I may go for one that is new out of the box. IF (#3) I do that, they're NOT going to get the core from me. I'll study it. I expect there ain't no such thing as a Beck Arnley Rebuilt Swift Upper Throttle Body though. UPDATE: Just got done with the search. AUTOJOKE wanted $181.oo just for the injector, so that isn't going to fly. I found a BOSTECH OEM rebuilt and tested unit several places for $25 + core charge of $35. The pressure regulator "guts" are $17 and some pocket change It's another $17 for the T/B gasket set. SO... In a couple of days I get to drop a hundred dollar bill for the complete round-up. In the mean time I'll pull the entire TB and do a cleanup and visual inspection on it. Edited by Greywolf, Mar 25 2015, 10:25 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Greywolf | Mar 25 2015, 12:52 PM Post #82 |
|
Mostly Harmless
![]()
|
Aw-reet... Time for the picture dump:![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I just love it when bales of brightly colored washcloths go on sale at the dollar store - there's nothing like having color coded shop towels! Be sure and stuff the rag(s) in tight in these ports, so that nothing can get in, especially BUGS!!! ![]() Your basic "Throttle Body Boxed Set". Nothing is allowed to get lost, and everything goes back in the box after any work is done, until it all goes back on the manifold. I learned long ago that ziplock bags are priceless. ![]() The real trouble is that steel screws in an alloy casting, that have sat for a long time can be a real booger to remove without ruining them. Note that the fuel pressure regulator screws are not allen key - they are in fact TORX head screws. In spite of having the right tools, I busted one off. I will use the top plate as a guide when I drill and tap it. Ball point pen is pointing at a phillips head screw that was beginning to act up. At this point I stopped, sprayed the whole works down with penetrating lubricant, and I have been looking for my old dead-blow hand held impact tool. I may have to borrow one from across the street if I can't find it. I think the only way these are coming out without being damaged is if they soak over night... I also CALLED UP AUTOZONE on the plain old telephone, and YEP! They don't have any suppliers at all for a "Throttle Body Unit" for this car. ~So it's fix it, or back off and punt. But damn if I want to put a Weber down-draft on it after hunting down the right (hi pressure) fuel pump. I went through a lot of hassle to set it up right, and I want it RIGHT. I also noticed that the well in the fuel pressure regulator was DRY - and I know fuel was getting to the T/B. I almost don't wanna see whatever is inside the injector cavity...
|
![]() |
|
| Metromightymouse | Mar 25 2015, 01:08 PM Post #83 |
|
Powdercoat Wizard
![]()
|
Those screws are locktited from the factory. |
![]() |
|
| Greywolf | Mar 25 2015, 02:10 PM Post #84 |
|
Mostly Harmless
![]()
|
I noticed - too late I began to wonder at what temperature that particular loctite grade softens up. It's the blue stuff, red is low temperature, green is machinists loctite for setting engine studs that you NEVER EVER want to have come loose, and it takes 500 degrees f. to make it release. What the blue does I dunno - but some of the screws came out with just a little bit of persuasion. The one on the regulator hat I could tell had more problems than loctite though, I was using a professional grade security torx bit on them, and I know it was the right size. The next step, after the others were out, was to use a pair of "Grip Multiplier" pliers on it from the side, it snapped off under the head. Stage three was to try to remove the remaining stud after the cover (hat) was off, no dice. It snapped level with the casting surface. SO... Dang, what did I do with all those tiny little carbide bits anyway??? SMALL UPDATE: Here is a diagram that I robbed from (I'm not telling!) ![]() You can see the flow of fuel, it comes to a banjo fitting, then into the T/B and flows to a basket filter around the fuel injector itself. an upper port connects the FI well to the pressure regulator. If the regulator was dry of fuel, it didn't get that far through the T/B... Make sense? I think the next indicated step is to connect the fuel supply line to my fuel pressure test gauge, and see if the pressure being delivered is up to spec. If it isn't, maybe there is a leak someplace, but there still should have been wet fuel in the regulator when I opened it. NOTE: When I took off the T/B after it had sat for a while, there was still pressure in the fuel line - enough so that it squirted a small amount of gas out when I disconnected the line. If the line between the tank and the T/B was compromised, it should have bled off any pressure. So I'm thinking I'm going to see if not 40 PSI, at least something above eleven when I test it with the gauge set. OH BY THE WAY - it was clean looking fuel, not orange, like I discovered in the tank when I ripped it out to clean it. My research back and forth is telling me that the operating pressure is normally around eleven PSI for correct injector spray patterns. Bottom line seems to indicate that the injector itself is thoroughly "HORKENATED" To paraphrase a line from the old 'Sound of Music' film: "Just a spoon full of sugar makes THE MOTHER (F)er CHOKE TO DEATH!!!"
Edited by Greywolf, Mar 25 2015, 02:57 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Woodie | Mar 26 2015, 05:26 AM Post #85 |
![]()
|
Heat up those screw with a big soldering iron to loosen the LockTite. |
![]() |
|
| Greywolf | Mar 26 2015, 08:57 PM Post #86 |
|
Mostly Harmless
![]()
|
I wish I had seen that post about using a soldering iron about two hours ago.... I got the last screws out, and drilled the broken one out. I need to hunt through my screw collection and see if I have any that are close that can be safety wired. If not, I'll send for some safety wire drilled allen head screws. ![]() Not a very steady image, but it shows it. ![]() Looks clean - this is all there is to the regulator, it operates on vacuum. ![]() The main malefactor, filter screen clogged with nastiness. ![]() Business end of the injector. The orange/brown stuff is home made glue. (just mix sugar and gasoline) Based on this, I'll work on the threads and screws. I may take a stab at cleaning this unit but I have zero confidence in it ever working again. Best to just trash and replace it. |
![]() |
|
| Stubby79 | Mar 26 2015, 09:33 PM Post #87 |
![]()
|
Doubt that's sugar...ancient gas turned bad, mayhaps? |
![]() |
|
| Greywolf | Mar 27 2015, 07:39 AM Post #88 |
|
Mostly Harmless
![]()
|
I know for a fact that it's sugar/gas. The YDP (Young Dumb Punk) that originally owned the car told the guy I bought it from that he dumped a five pound bag in the tank. That was how it ended up being a parts car. See farther back in this thread and you will find where I explain what it took to clean out the tank. Basically a huge amount of oven cleaner... On to newer efforts: Since I wasn't sleeping well, around four or five AM I went out to the shop and tracked down some of the hardware I have ratpacked over the years. Nice thing about a maintenance background - you wind up with a whole hill of leftover fasteners. NAVAL Air FOD (Foreign Object and Debris) programs are fanatical about getting rid of any left over parts so they can't wind up where they shouldn't be and cause harm. This means screws, nuts, washers, all of that and more are routinely trashed unless an enterprising young tech (such as I was) gathers them up and takes them home. I still have transistors and all sorts of stuff. The drilling and tapping process was a bit tedious, but I took my time and it came out well indeed. ![]() I lucked out on the Injector screws - found a pair of exact matches in higher grade material (stainless) ![]() For what it's worth - these screws are 10 National Fine 32 TPI. Lots more meat on the threads than the original, but still fits perfect. Best of all, they're made for safety wire, which is better for a thing like this than loctite. Now I can move on to other things, like taking it down a bit more to ensure the passages in it are clean, and making the whole works prettier than it is. I'm a firm believer that clean engines and components work a lot better. If nothing else, they are more fun to work on if everything you touch isn't filthy. (?) Anyone remember Father Guido Sarducci from Saturday Night Live? "Filth, and GROSSNESS" are not allowed on my wheels... Now I get to go root out where I stashed the roll of safety wire I horded. Now that I've had a chance to really look at this unit - I like what I see. It's fairly simple, the work horse of the whole thing is the injector. There is also an air bypass valve built into the thing, visible from below. After bullet-proofing the hardware situation, the regulator will be easy from now on - assuming it ever jacks up. I suspect it has nothing wrong with it. In essence it's a supporting device for the injector, with a butterfly valve and throttle position sensor. Now that I know what I'm dealing with, it seems much simpler than a carburettor MINOR UPDATE: I chose a low impact approach to the degreasing and general cleaning. Rubbing alcohol to remove grease and oil, then I scrubbed it with a brush and liquid dish soap to get rid of residue. I rinsed it down with hot water, dried it carefully and set it in front of a small heater to fully dry it after blowing out the passages with low pressure air. This is similar to the IMA approach to corrosion control on Avionics. Edited by Greywolf, Mar 27 2015, 06:49 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Greywolf | Mar 30 2015, 07:10 PM Post #89 |
|
Mostly Harmless
![]()
|
SO! I got out my brand new SUNPRO Fuel Pressure Gauge/Test Set.. Connected it in a dead end configuration - fuel line feeding into the gauge only. Connect the negative to the battery (I leave it off to prevent discharge when not doing anything to the car) ~Turned the key to juice the system up to pressure... IT MAXED OUT THE GAUGE AT 100 PSI!!! Far as I know, I have an exact OEM replacement pump installed for a '93 SOHC 1.3L, with a single injector. But now I'm wondering WTF??? I thought it was only supposed to kick out 40PSI - it isn't any kind of a super-duper massive pump on steroids from JEGS or anything, so was ist losse? Is it intended to kick out way over pressure? Is there a pressure sensor in the system anywhere that cuts off the pump when it gets up to the correct pressure? I just don't know - could it be I have a pump intended for a multi-injector system? No matter what, the T/B should have been drowned with fuel, so I guess I was at least right about the injector being plugged. This thing acts like an alien reactor or something, how can it be intended to pump that hard? |
![]() |
|
| Metromightymouse | Mar 30 2015, 08:29 PM Post #90 |
|
Powdercoat Wizard
![]()
|
You are supposed to "T" into the fuel line, not dead end into the gauge, that is why it's overpressure. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Project Forum · Next Topic » |


Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.





i love your DIY approach to things keep it up man.















7:23 PM Jul 10