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The WOLF CUB (1993 Suzuki Swift/Metro)
Topic Started: Jun 25 2014, 03:15 PM (14,630 Views)
68custom


also says to replace pump if pressure is to high! new or old!
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

That's what I have been looking at - how much credence do I put in that?

Is this new info?

THAT pump was listed as a direct OEM replacement from a trusted source. Look back in this thread and you see "Two and a half times nominal rated pressure at idle" and so on....


This is becoming weird... But the bottom line is will it work or not, and will it last a long time?


Will TOO MUCH PRESSURE mess stuff up?


That's the thing that bugs me. Did they leave out a pressure relief valve in later pumps? WHY?



Chuck the dice, I have no idea either.... But it does seem to me like an important issue to run down to the brass nuts.


AND NO MATTER WHAT REDVERT SAYS, unless he can provide a better reference, I have listed all of mine.
I stand justified.


With the information I have at my disposal, I am correct in suspecting a MALF.


*Presently entertaining my Border Collie mix and listening to Loreena McKennitt while I listen for my inner self to provide insight
Edited by Greywolf, Apr 6 2015, 03:13 PM.
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David95237


You never dead head a positive displacement pump, Once you stall the motor its liable to burn out, yo should put an amprobe on it and You will see what i mean. Pressure is controled by the regulator not the pump.
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

That's if the pump is designed with no internal regulator such as a relief valve.

The original equipment is designed with a relief valve - apparently what we have now lacks them

If you looked at the reference material - you can't miss the mention of a relief valve built into the pump itself.


STANDARD KNOWLEDGE AS OF THE END OF THE PRODUCTION RUN IS THAT THE PUMP ONLY DELIVERS A MAX OF FORTY PSI

THE REGULATOR DROPS THIS TO APPROXIMATELY ELEVEN PSI, DEPENDING ON CONDITIONS.


But that is according to my research, which I have recently proven is reliable if the SOURCES are at all reliable.


Don't blame me, I'm just the weenie reading the books....
Edited by Greywolf, Apr 6 2015, 05:52 PM.
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Mythstae
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Keep in mind that these pages are from a 1996 FSM, as I do not own a 1993 and therefore have no FSM for it.

But anyway, I grabbed these pics for you, in case they might help.
They are huge, you should be able to zoom in and read everything no problem.

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myredvert
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myredvert

[edited to remove original post]

Edited by myredvert, Apr 6 2015, 07:51 PM.
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

That's interesting because it does not show an extra outlet from the pump to return any additional fuel pressure

If you look at it it shows the pump, then a fuel filter, and then the delivery point is the fuel injector inlet itself.


There really is nothing else to interfere between.
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Greywolf
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*Post del-x'd by OP
Edited by Greywolf, Apr 8 2015, 03:00 PM.
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myredvert
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myredvert

The pump does not regulate fuel pressure. Plenty of people have attempted to relay information concerning what regulates pressure (the pressure regulator) as well as how to correctly install a fuel pressure tester in the system. Both of which are clearly documented in the FSM.

The pump does have a valve to maintain pressure when it is not running. That is also described in the FSM.

In an attempt to more diplomatically summarize what I previously posted but subsequently removed:

Relying on questionable (at best) references and testing a system or any part of it incorrectly normally results in flawed/bad conclusions and lots of unnecessary tail chasing.
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

*Post del-x'd by OP
Edited by Greywolf, Apr 8 2015, 03:01 PM.
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

This is foolish, lets get back to putting a car on the road

Question: How does this help me build my car?

Answer: It does not, Redvert is being a TROLL

Solution: Ignore REDVERT


Everyone else is helpful
Edited by Greywolf, Apr 6 2015, 09:05 PM.
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Woodie
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Greywolf
Apr 6 2015, 01:00 PM
REFERENCE:
1) CHILTON
Chevrolet Sprint/Geo Metro 1985-1993 Repair manual, part# 8424

2) CHILTON
Chevrolet Sprint & Metro, Geo Metro/Suzuki Swift 1985-2000 Repair manual part# 28700
ISBN: 1 56392 427 7
Library of Congress control# 2001090882
Copyright 2001
Author Credit: Joseph D'Orazio, A.S.E.

3) HAYNES
Chevrolet Sprint & Geo Metro 1985-1994 part# 24075 (1727)
There's not a book in that list worth owning. Use them for tinder and get a Factory Shop Manual.
Quote:
 
CQ CQ CQ: Stand by for documentation -vis- REF#2
Page 5-15, paragraph "TESTING" photo to follow....

Posted Image

*This item was checked at fuel line termination in the engine bay, far beyond the filter. Reading equals 100PSI Gauge

I have never heard of such a thing, nor am I aware of any valve in the fuel pump. Maybe this is for a GEN1 car, which is a completely different animal, built on a different continent, with no interchangeable parts, that should not be covered in the same book. This is exactly why those books are no good.

Fuel pressure tests are done at the throttle body with a T adapter. Usually, if there's fuel flowing in the return line, it's fine.

Edited by Woodie, Apr 7 2015, 06:02 AM.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

Woodie
Apr 7 2015, 05:59 AM
Greywolf
Apr 6 2015, 01:00 PM
REFERENCE:
1) CHILTON
Chevrolet Sprint/Geo Metro 1985-1993 Repair manual, part# 8424

2) CHILTON
Chevrolet Sprint & Metro, Geo Metro/Suzuki Swift 1985-2000 Repair manual part# 28700
ISBN: 1 56392 427 7
Library of Congress control# 2001090882
Copyright 2001
Author Credit: Joseph D'Orazio, A.S.E.

3) HAYNES
Chevrolet Sprint & Geo Metro 1985-1994 part# 24075 (1727)
There's not a book in that list worth owning. Use them for tinder and get a Factory Shop Manual.
Quote:
 
CQ CQ CQ: Stand by for documentation -vis- REF#2
Page 5-15, paragraph "TESTING" photo to follow....

Posted Image

*This item was checked at fuel line termination in the engine bay, far beyond the filter. Reading equals 100PSI Gauge

I have never heard of such a thing, nor am I aware of any valve in the fuel pump. Maybe this is for a GEN1 car, which is a completely different animal, built on a different continent, with no interchangeable parts, that should not be covered in the same book. This is exactly why those books are no good.

Fuel pressure tests are done at the throttle body with a T adapter. Usually, if there's fuel flowing in the return line, it's fine.

There is a valve in the fuel pump, it's just to hold pressure when the pump is off. Greywolf admitted it was spurious information in post #115 (it was short and easy to miss).
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myredvert
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myredvert

To make one thing clear up front, I am not insulting your intelligence. In all fairness, I have no first hand knowledge of what it may be. I am simply trying to point out how many self-induced difficulties/dramas your thought process seems to cause you, and how it has created completely unnecessary drama over what really is a simple process.

My father was an auto mechanic for 50 years, but not a member of the SAE, an aviation, automotive, or even a choo choo engineer, which apparently precludes me from being gifted with some unique genetic pre-qualification to make such a mountain out of molehill testing and part replacement process. For that I apologize, as it has clearly left me way out of your league in these types of discussions.

That may also explain why what I learned from him is so "unscientifically simple" and quite the opposite of your "philosophy" on how to molest repair a vehicle...
what I learned from being raised by a non-SAE card carrying mechanic[/quote
 
Avoid aftermarket publications such as Haynes and Chiltons like the plague. They have to make up their own procedures to avoid infringing on the copyright protected, real factory manuals, and as such the procedures are virtually never even as good as the factory procedures and often are terribly in conflict with what the design engineers intended.

There is a serious lack of a professional, manufacturer supported feedback system from the manufacturer's dealer network, to whom there is a high level of accountability for verifying and ensuring the efficacy and accuracy of the content.

And as such, to any moderately aware mechanic (professional or otherwise) they are barely worth the paper to wipe your butt with then burn for fire starter.

Buy the correct parts and use the real factory manual for technical data and testing/replacement procedures.
= Trolling. :thumb Got it.

Again, I sincerely apologize for suggesting anything that myself and any others here who may be similarly "genetically ungifted" would normally consider to be sound advice. Best of luck to you, and consider your "channel" to be "clear."
alpha mike foxtrot* :cheers
*For those not conversant in family friendly phonetic alphabet military jargon speak, alpha mike foxtrot = Adios, Mr. Fuel pump fixer
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

T/B is fitted with new screws - waiting for threadlocker now.

Priced FSM at Amazon, was quoted $250 for a 1993 manual...
I'm looking for a better price somewhere, that's outrageous.
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