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The WOLF CUB (1993 Suzuki Swift/Metro)
Topic Started: Jun 25 2014, 03:15 PM (14,629 Views)
Mythstae
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eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131437424677
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68custom


why not use your new parts in another used one now that you know how to take it apart and put it back together? I bet someone here may have one?
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Greywolf
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Mostly Harmless

68custom - I was considering that.
The T/B is now clean, and I can be confident in it's function. To tear into another one now would duplicate what I have already done, that can wait until I "STREET" it and run to a few pull-a-parts around here.
*Image of the T/B to be shown below

A part of the problem is that this machine has to be put on the road because in allowing myself to get sidetracked by a V8 1/4 ton Ranger truck project I put myself out of any vehicles for the past two years as that project ran into one hassle after another.

*But it DOES have a 351W finally shoehorned into it, without a body lift - which by itself is amazing. The transmission setup I want will require several thousand bucks, and at that point I threw in the towel and said:
"I need wheels, RIGHT NOW"


THIS is that set of wheels, and I chose the apparent simplest on my lot. I have had a Metro before, and unless they are purposely and deliberately ruined they are bullet proof and easy to work on.

This one was purposely and deliberately ruined, as we know.

I'm just glad the kid who had it before me wasn't smart enough to accomplish a complete kill.

We will see what happens once the threadlocker gets here, I'm going with grade blue. It will need 24 hours to cure before I risk the install and test, because as it stands I have a good engine. It would only take one stainless screw dropping into it to wreck one or more of the valves, and I can't afford that right now - my mobility is at stake.

Mythstea;
What I speculate (SPECULATE!) happened is that the originals had a relief valve in the pump itself that was found to be unnecessary after 'time on road' testing showed that the T/B regulator was up to the task of maintaining the right pressure.

NO factory spends money on the tooling or more expensive parts per unit for something that is decided is not needed, so in cost reduction those pumps must have gone away early in the development.

It was likely a bypass within the pump itself, but we can only guess now. That such a note can be found at all is an indication that they once had them but they are 'Dinosaur Bones' these days.

I suppose the value in turning up such a reference is that we can "DEBUNK" future mention of such a thing based on first hand experience. Although it may seem to some that I have chased my tail over a non-issue, it is important I think to shed light on what I agree is misleading information in the most common manuals available to hobbiests.

Due to the fact that the older units are now GONE, there don't seem to be any references about them. Since updates are not likely to be forthcoming (that would explain that "X" testing info is in error, and why) the probability that someone else will hit on the same confusion is real and very likely, so I don't consider my time wasted.

Second note here, BTW...
I DID notice that in a "Key On/Engine Off" test that I did, the line pressure bled back down a bit fast. I am suspecting the Checkvalve back near the tank is the cause, but I also want to replace pretty much every single rubber line used for anything in the car as a precaution.

*You be amazed at how many vacuum line, sensor, and fuel issues can be eradicated just by updating 25 year old rubber hoses.

Matter of fact, I have some seriously cool looking translucent blue polyurethane line in three sizes to use for most of it. The fuel lines will be high pressure EFI line, with maybe a blue dress-up outer braid added.


Possibly of equal value to debunking the spurious info - is what to do when the threads are boogered on an otherwise useful Throttle Body. One way or another - you either have to go with bigger hardware (which I chose) or at least install helicoils, which I thought was adding trouble to an existing problem.

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I went with 10X32 screws, allen head stainless steel. The top cover of the regulator had to have its own pass-through holes drilled so the new screws would fit, and this needs to be done slowly and carefully with a high speed bit to avoid cracking through the corners.
Apply very little down force on the drill, and let it cut its own way, be sure and use lubricant on the bit - transmission fluid works well.

*PIC was shot mid-way through drilling upper right screw hole. I let the item cool down between stages, and went through in about four steps

The hand tool you see is a reamer. They don't cost much, and it was used to remove any flash leftover from drilling

The FINAL option, and I did consider it, would be to permanently install STUDS and use aircraft grade locking nuts.


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*Screw box in upper left is the back-up set, in case 1/2 inch shank screws are ever damaged
DONE! All fasteners test fitted, and awaiting Threadlocker. No washers were used, to avoid excess hardware

UPDATE, UPDATE!

Blue threadlocker arrived and was applied at 1700CST

*I also got 8 bare root Forsythia plants, and a Giant Thai Elephant Ear Plant, but that's news for somewhere else. I stopped everything and took care of the plants/bushes first

This unit should be ready to reinstall tomorrow. I don't think the air bypass was corrupted.
Edited by Greywolf, Apr 8 2015, 05:52 PM.
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Greywolf
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I suppose the one bright side here is that one by one I am undoing all the bad things that were done to this machine before I got it.

Fuel now makes it through the throttle body to the return port, but it looks like the injector is not getting a signal.
With 99% of the mechanical fuel problems taken care of, I'm going to get with a friend and neighbor of mine who has a collection of code readers and get the codes from this thing.

Over the last two days I have looked for any visual indications of messed up or messed with wiring, and found the below:

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Since Dee is only around on the weekends, we'll take it up again tomorrow. Frankly I'm starting to think about another car I was offered that at least wasn't butchered by a high school kid.

EDIT: Car also probably has a shorted out temperature sensor, dash gauge reads max. If I'm lucky it's a bad wire, but I don't expect luck with this project anymore.
Edited by Greywolf, Apr 10 2015, 02:58 PM.
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Greywolf
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Test connectors located, scanner wasn't real helpful since it's ODB-1 (counting flashes type).
NEW PROBLEM: No check engine light at all.

I found a diagnostic chart in reference part #8424 (CHILTONS) on page 4-100

It isn't an FSM, nor is it for a Swift, but they are related.

To dark now to even think about it further.
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Greywolf
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DOH!!!

NOW I remember where and when I saw those two disconnected wires before, and it all makes sense. The prior owner had cobbled together a "VIPER 500+" car alarm and anti-theft device and crammed it into the lower left of the dash.

Those two wires are from the EEC/ECM module, an ignition interrupt relay had been installed. I ripped out the whole thing, but never went back and connected new wire to join the broken links. It was months ago, and just before a lot of bad weather came in. Now I get to go back in, find them, and do some creative solder work both under the dash and under the intake manifold - I don't even think the posts about it are even here.

The only reason I remembered is because I have the remains of the system sitting on the floor next to the computer desk in an empty four pound tuna fish can I saved to stick old parts in...

I doubt it will ever be useful for anything, but there are a few fuse holders and some good wire attached to it.

*Cursewords that otherwise would not be useful can be imagined to be contained between the following brackets:
{ } !!! :banghead

I guess I'll be "DASH DIVING" for a while. I HOPE that's all that is wrong with it - but yeah, it would account for the lack of a lot of things.

~Did a lighting check today too, no tail lights, one headlight.

Somewhere in the reading I have done there was mention of the tail light fuse being tied in with the EEC/ECM and/or fuel pump, but the pump runs just fine. The fuel return line sprayed gas all over me when I loosened it to check for flow.

*Tomorrow I'll do the recommended inline fuel pressure test to see if it is in spec. The hardware issues have been resolved, I think. Best to be sure though.

Who knows....
Edited by Greywolf, Apr 10 2015, 08:53 PM.
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Greywolf
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I did some voltmeter checks today - confirmed that 12VDC is on one of the contacts of the injector plug, also at the injector resistor where I looked first.

The injector has 12VDC on it, and the ECM grounds it to create pulses of fuel spray. The return line to the ECM is noted in the book I have as a Yellow and Black wire - so that one is probably the one that looked to me white with a blue strip (faded over the years, naturally).

Tomorrow I'll check it with an ohmeter. It can only go one place if it's what I think it is.

It also seems to me that if those wires were fetched out of the wire harness, the other ends of them must be nearby inside a wire bundle...

I wish I had a reliable pin-out of the ECM connectors. It looks like the injector trigger goes back to pin 12 of the big connector of the ECM.
Pin 14 is memory power, and pin 1 is ignition power from the F.I. relay

My book doesn't show the power wire as red with a white stripe though.

I think I want to peel back the cover on the wire bundle these are coming out of and see what I find.

I hope nothing was cut up too badly under the dash.

UPDATE: The RED/WHITE and the WHITE/BLUE were broken off of the IDLE AIR CONTROL connector, I looked closer at it because I wondered where the electrical connection was on it.

One less mystery, one more hassle - there isn't much to attach new wire to, but I think I can do it. The A/C air bleed needs work too, closer look showed they were in bad shape.

Still no clue about ECM/ECU, I'll fix this first and then worry about it.
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To be installed. Red= Red/Wht, Yellow= Wht/Blu
Edited by Greywolf, Apr 12 2015, 09:47 AM.
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Greywolf
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Connector one (C1) pin 1, 12V in on. Pin 14, 12V at all times. Pins 25 and 26 with C1 disconnected, zero ohms to ground.

CAR NOW HAS CHECK ENGINE LIGHT.

sPARE FUSE INSTALLED IN TEST SLOT OF FUSE BLOCK - CHECK ENGINE LIGHT BLINKS CONTINUOUS CODE 12.

Spare fuse removed, key on, I shorted the ECM side of the injector connector to ground, and fuel sprayed in the T/B.

Next test (tomorrow) is to read C1 pin 12 to the injector connector pin for continuity.

INLINE fuel pressure, Key ON = 90PSI :hmm

Still - with the ECM flashing 12 at me, things look better than they did.
Edited by Greywolf, Apr 12 2015, 06:17 PM.
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idmetro
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Greywolf
Apr 12 2015, 05:38 PM
INLINE fuel pressure, Key ON = 90PSI :hmm
I may have missed it, but did you verify your return line back to the fuel tank was clear? I recall there having been at least a few times where folks have had funky fuel pressure issues traced back to a clog of some type and with your car having suffered sabotage I have to wonder about the condition of that line.
Edited by idmetro, Apr 13 2015, 09:35 AM.
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Greywolf
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I was thinking along those (!) 'lines' myself - being a smaller line, any gunk in it would have a drastic effect. It's been raining since night before last, so I haven't been back out there much.

I wonder if carb or injector cleaner could be blown back through the line and allowed to sit for a while. Once whatever is in there has been softened up I could pull the fuel cap off and use compressed air to blow anything in it into the tank, if there is no convenient connecting hose I can remove at the back end to drain it short of the fuel tank.

I just hope it doesn't pack together and clog it up solid right in the middle.

I don't recall seeing any bent or pinched lines, and visual inspections have turned up more things than any single trouble shooting method on this one.

~Then again, so much has been wrong with it that it only takes looking at it for a few minutes to find something else that is screwed up...


In other circumstances the unibody equivalent of a "Frame Off" restoration would have been a much better approach.


I really need to wade into my garage and make some serious space inside of it. It's a single car shop, with two V8 and one 4CYL engines on stands, several large toolboxes, many piles of recycled parts, a vertical tank compressor, engine cherry picker, and a three foot by twelve foot work and storage bench running down one side.

Also a cart full of pieces from the V8 Ranger project and no doubt a partridge in a pear tree...



Just at a guess I suppose there is no exacting "Liters Per Second @ "X" PSI" fully Suzuki approved test procedure in the FSM for determining the condition of the return line. :news so if it brings the inline reading down, that should satisfy everybody.

:whistle


I need to go under the dash with a good flashlight and back-probe Connector 1 Pin 12 to see if I have the injector voltage on it with the key on.

I also think I need to investigate the ECU grounds to make sure any and ALL of them are 100%. There may be one I don't know about for the injector signal, or they may not be quite good enough to pass all the current they should. If there is resistance in that circuit from a bad connection it could cause the injector windings to fail to pull the orifice open.

I'm still frankly puzzled by the presence of an anti-theft relay in the birds nest of alarm unit trash I removed. I haven't found any interrupted wires yet, and the ECU sends a "NO FAILURES" signal.

But if I was looking for a slick way to kill a car with a relay, the injector return line is about as safe as I could ask for. It is highly unlikely to harm the computer if that wire was interrupted.


Thought for the day:
Werner Von Braun did not design the Suzuki Swift - his former Allies did...

Edited by Greywolf, Apr 14 2015, 09:46 AM.
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Greywolf
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'Rain, at times heavy' is the forecast for all of this week. Since I haven't been back out to the car I have been doing more research and taking the time to get my garden patches set up. It needs to be good weather with good light, and I need to be interested in the project again to do a good job. I never like to crash through things in a manic state.

* I ran across an acronym in a Clive Cussler book I have been re-reading: "DORK"
~stands for "DOn't Really Know"

So I'm in DORK status for now


What the hell, saving money is also necessary.
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idmetro
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Like the acronym! Also like Cussler - which book are you reading?
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Greywolf
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idmetro
Apr 19 2015, 07:48 AM
Like the acronym! Also like Cussler - which book are you reading?
I think it was "Blue Gold" :hmm

It's been raining sometimes twice a day lately, and I had a lot of yard stuff to do. If it's dry enough to jack up the back end after sunup I'm going to take loose the return line at the tank and check individual connections. I have a suspicion the trouble isn't the return line itself.

Will know more soon hopefully.
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idmetro
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Haven't read Blue Gold yet but have enjoyed many of his other books. Good luck on your quest to find the issue, might be a good idea to put some compressed air to the line once you have it disconnected at both ends just to make sure there isn't any partial blockage.
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Greywolf
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NEWS:

The main line from the T/B back to the tank is clear.
The only way to get at the rest is by dropping the tank again - Oh joy!!!

And now it's at least half full of gas.

I wonder why there should be a check valve on the return line? I bet that's it though.
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