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Extra plug id help; engine swap / extra plug
Topic Started: Jun 26 2014, 07:39 PM (469 Views)
diesels
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I am swapping a 93 Geo Metro auto trans 3 cyl engine. All the plugs match up between the appropriate connectors between new and old except one. The wire harness on the replacement engine going to the exhaust sensor area on the valve timing belt side of the motor in front has three wires. The corresponding harness on the bad engine has just two wires. The extra wire on the new engine is cloth covered, black, and has a 90 deg boot attached to the end. The insulator is clear/whitish with a spring clip inside, sort of like a miniaturized spark plug boot. The wire is about 5 inches long out of the harness end. I can't find a spot where this boot attaches to the car. Thanks
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Woodie
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Probably for the A/C compressor. Best bet is to use ALL the original wiring, sensors, electrical bits. Especially the throttle body and distributor.
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diesels
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Woodie - Thanks for your response. That makes sense. The motor is one of those lo-mile salvage motors from Japan. Hence the extra electrical connector. So I do not have to sweat a wire that may originate from the Brain box! That means no left over mystery plugs or hoses! There is not much call for A/C in Alaska. LOL - Diesels
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diesels
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I spent half a day tagging and comparing the wiring plugs between the two motors. I was starting to fasten spade plugs in the severed wiring harness on the replacement in preparation of cutting the harness on the car. Then I called the guy who sells me gas. He said I should just unplug the old motor instead of cutting. It's funny how a newbie mechanic thinks! Oh and gas is $6.79 / GAL here - Diesels
Edited by diesels, Jun 27 2014, 02:18 PM.
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t3ragtop
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker

having had considerable experience with the low mile export engines you are talking about i would warn you to replace seals and gaskets before you throw it in your car.

they steam clean those engines and stack them in overseas shipping containers. they sit on the freight pier in the sun, they load them onto a ship that crosses the pacific ocean with the containers sitting in the sun, they unload them where they sit in the sun on the receiving dock. when you finally get the engine it will be seriously dried out. :P

i got away with a few of those but had twice as many spring oil leaks, puff smoke on startup from fried valve seals, or lose coolant.

it's easier to do a quick cleanup and reseal with the engine out of the car. i usually do a new water pump, timing belt, and tensioner on the air care nixed japanese export engines. i pull the head for inspection and at minimum replace the valve seals. i replace the cam seal, distributor o-ring, front crankshaft seal, head gasket, valve cover gasket, valve cover sealing washers, intake manifold and exhaust manifold gaskets.

i inspect the rear crankshaft seal. those hold up really well and it's hard to beat the oem seal - undisturbed. ;)

use the exhaust manifold and the intake manifold with all the original sensors as they are and that takes care of any model year compatibility issues with the ecu and wiring harness.

service the flywheel, install a new clutch kit and cable, and do whatever cleaning and painting is needed with the power unit out of the car. it's way easier to wire brush the rust off the frame horns and suspension points when the engine is wide open.

this might invoke disagreement, but i find that assembling the engine block and transmission into a power unit outside the car and then dropping the power unit into the car is the easiest way to go. i stand the engine up on it's nose, timing cover down and drop the transmission straight down to guide the input shaft through the clutch disc and then into the pilot bearing. again, for me that's the easiest way to seat the transmission bell to the block cleanly.

it's easier for me to completely assemble the power unit outside the car but i modify the "surgery" for a replacement long block by leaving the complete intake in the car and the exhaust manifold connected to the exhaust. i remove the power unit and drop the new one back in with the manifolds tied back out of the way.

that's my 2 cents. ;)
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diesels
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t3ragtop - Thanks for the additional input. I have the timing belt and gaskets. I need a little more experience before I start crackin' loose the head (maybe do an autopsy on the blown oldie for experience). I plan to run Chevron Arctic Fluid DELO o-400 0-30wt (a popular oil here in AK which I have experience with) when its cold and have synthetic tranny fluid if there is any that will cross over to what is called for in the metro manual. A silicone pad heater on the oil and tranny pans plus a block heater to plug up when below zero. The motor is light weight so 6-700 watts total should get the fluids out of the glacial state before starting. - diesels
Edited by diesels, Jun 27 2014, 09:06 PM.
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Woodie
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You should not be changing anything that has an electrical connector on it. Unbolt the intake manifold, distributor, and thermostat housing from your old engine and bolt them on to your "new" engine. That way everything stays the same, no wiring needed, no new computer needed.
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diesels
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Woodie, If all the plugs and wiring on the old motor match up with the sensor plugs attached to the new motor, wouldn't it be easer to just un-plug? The only left over plug is id'd as the compressor connector (Cloth covered, not connected to the Brain Box). I see the advantage of keeping the old sensor / wiring set up (by following your recommendation) as not to up set the brain box functioning. If all plugs match between engines, the brain box should see them as the same motor, right? Did Suzuki run a lot of changes to the control sensor / wiring set up over the years? All my plugs match up between motors. Can I assume that the old motor control (Brain Box) should "see" the replacement engine as the same and control it in the correct manner? Did the sensors change, but use the same wiring harness plug style connector, which might confuse a newbie like me? I want to understand fully why your reccomending pulling hardware with attached sensor wiring is the best method. Both engines and wiring look the same = They are the same Yes No? Thanks for your insight - diesels
Edited by diesels, Jun 28 2014, 03:18 PM.
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myredvert
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myredvert

Is your replacement motor a '93 also? Engine identification/serial number is on the aft left corner of the engine block (to the right of the oil filter when looking at the engine from the front of the car). 1993 engines will start with G 10 P (P = 1993).

The Engine Control Module - ECM (or Powertrain Control Module depending on where in the Factory manual you read it) doesn't so much "see" an engine as a certain year, it only knows what it was originally programmed to do for the engine and particular components that were installed on the engine that year. Some years certain components and/or sensors changed, and the ECM programming was changed accordingly to control and/or monitor the "new" engine and component package as a whole. In some cases the wiring harness also changed to accommodate the new or different component types, functions, or locations.

Once you verify the year of the engine you are installing, extremely knowledgeable and experienced guys like Woodie and t3 can easily fill you in on any details that may need to be addressed as far as swapping engine components, sensors, etc. to ensure everything works correctly in conjunction with the ECM in your year car, and what (if any) the specific differences in the two engines are.
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David95237


If all the plugs match up go for it. If they dont you will know what you have to change. Mostly temp sensors changed over the years
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Woodie
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Five years of reading posts about people who swapped engines, plugged everything in, and couldn't get it to run have lead to this advice. There were lots of changes to sensors over the years. Far simpler to keep your factory setup and just change the engine block and head than it is to track down a bunch of problems one sensor at a time. Plus, you're never going to find the correct rotor and cap for that Japanese distributor two years from now when you need a tune up.
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diesels
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I am going to treat this job as a long-block swap, which seems to be the route of least resistance. The car was a good runner until the previous owner did an oil change and remote started the engine during extreme cold (-40), which drained the oil out the loose drain plug. I will assume all of the existing plugs and electrical sensors are OK and insert a fresh set of mechanicals into the equation. Thanks to everyone for their valuable input in helping me not to royally screw the pouch on this repair. - diesels
Edited by diesels, Jun 29 2014, 01:24 PM.
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