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IAC valve discontinued 91 metro, now what?; stuck on IAC
Topic Started: Jul 23 2014, 09:50 PM (2,564 Views)
dvrocc
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updated: culprit was 'throttle position sensor' smog test is done and it passed!.

First off like to say thanks for at least reading this over & I did a quick search but didn't find what I was seeking so now it is time to ask xD.

This issue is about the IAC valve and that O'Reilly Auto Parts took some time to search and even used my VIN to track the part and said it is discontinued for the 1991 Geo Metro 1.0L so now I am in a bind and I did some research and discovered that the 1990 Suzuki Swift 1.3 has the same exact valve with same part number and is not discontinued because it shows up in some listings like rockauto and even orielly auto, so is the 1990 Suzuki swift 1.3L 4 Cyl IAC able to work on the 1991 Geo Metro 1.0L 3 Cyl?

the part number on the valve in my car is says, Suzuki 18117-60B10

P.S. silly me, I forgot to mention why I was looking.
when I took it for smog the tech said my car at 2500 rpm wouldn't hold at 2500 and its mostly likely the IAC and noticed that when the engine is idle and I turn something on like headlights or even the heater fan the RPS would drop almost to a stal so that tells me its the IAC for sure, now just got to find a solution because can't beat the MPG oh 60 btw xD or more like 437.8 miles on 7.3 gallons of fuel, and why is my tank only 7.3 gallons? anyway....

Note, going to keep a running list on issues that come to mind and need checking and the ones I sorted so far.

01. Piston Compression - results: (done) tested 196 - 200 psi
02. Vacuum Lines Engine Area - result: (done) new
03. Distributor - result: (done) cleaned
04. Spark Plugs - result: (done) replaced
05. O2 Sensor - result: (done) replaced
06. Fuel Pump in the Tank - result: (not yet started)
07. K&N Air Filter - result: (done) cleaned
08. Fuel System Cleaning - result: (not yet started)
09. Fuel Injector - result: (not yet started)
10. IAC Valve - result: (done) rebuilt
11. PVC Valve - result: (done) new
12. Battery Terminals: - result: (done) cleaned
13. All Other Wire Connections (not yet started)
14. EGR With Gasket - result: (done) cleaned
15. Engine Timing - result: (done)
16. Engine Degreasing - result: (not yet started)
17. Throttle Position Sensor - result: (done) adjusted -possible culprit-
18. Timing Belt & Tensioner - result: (done)
19. Alternator Belt - result: (done)
still thinking...
Edited by dvrocc, Aug 17 2014, 07:52 PM.
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allmountain40
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First off, these cars are Suzukis rebadged as Geo for General Motors. If the part numbers are the same should be good to go. Before replacing IAC valce, check and/or replace the vacuum lines to IAC, you may have a leak. IAC's do tend to go out on these and this may be your problem, but you should probably have someone look at it before replacing parts. Your tank is bigger than 7.3 gallons although I have seen a lot of different numbers for actual tank size, suffice it to say your tank is somewhere between 9 and 10 gallons, and your gas gage says empty at 7.3 so that you have some reserve incase you are not close to a gas station.
Edited by allmountain40, Jul 23 2014, 11:00 PM.
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Old Man


I suggest you read this thread carefully:
http://geometroforum.com/topic/4804867/1/
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allmountain40
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:gp Never saw this one before. Very cool.
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dvrocc
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This morning I removed the IAC and and took it apart and followed & done what the above link shows, it was slightly oily on the plunger and one of the three copper (springs I assume) was broken so the valve wasn't fully closed, open or both during running time and I have a decent improvement and notice the IAC valve picking up when it is suppose too but its obviously not the source of the problem.

Digging deeper now:
My 2nd smog test today and it has the same problem of the engine being run at 2500 rpm and not staying at 2500 when the pedal is held, I now know is hesitation during acceleration because I can feel it more now then before I cleaned up the IAC, so now I am looking at the O2 sensor and some other sensors that are all part of the process, now it is search & destroy time.

post back later with updates.

Just a random thought: can you imagine if the Geo Metro 1.0L 3 Cyl can with a turbo from the factory back in the day and toss in some 120+ octane ultra-light aircraft fuel in the tank? holy crap those cars are light as a feather and you would be spinning those tires easily into 3rd gear xD
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dvrocc
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Update:

I replaced the O2 sensor from one my father had in storage back in 2009 that has about 3 hours run time on it that he used to smog his 84 ford ranger then took it off & tossed it in storage I am assuming its still in working order, it was a universal from Oreillys that covered about 35 makes & models of certain cars and my Geo was in this list so how I see it I saved $20 in parts and 30 minutes of time and about 99 cents in gas for the Metro xD!

Also while I was doing that I went ahead and tested up the compression a\because I know that will come up here at some point, on all three cylinders I have about 197 - 200 psi each so that tells me my guts of the engine, exhaust & intake valves, cam, hydro lifters, head gasket are all in working order so if any of those were bad it would be noticeable, earlier today I was sitting at a stop light and OMG my car purrs like a cat not shaking much or anything, just the annoying hesitation that I can feel now through most shifts.

And also! I forgot to add that I went ahead and started replacing old vacuum hoses and the first to go was the IAC lines then I will work out from there I think its time I replaced all those lines.

now questions, what else would cause hesitations during acceleration all gears between dead to about 55 mph? I can really feel it when I shit to second and then step on the gas pedal then it hesitates for a few seconds then kicks you to the seat when it grabs.

Note: all this because my smog test failed at 2500rpm the engine would not stay at that number.
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allmountain40
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Vacuum advance on distributer. Check vacuum lines. unplug lines at intake side while it is running and hold thumb over intake nipples. If idle slows down vacuum advance is working. next check timing. If timing is off car will hesitate when throttle applied. Also check plug gap while you're at it, worn plugs with too big a gap will cause hesitation.
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dvrocc
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allmountain40
Jul 24 2014, 09:39 PM
Vacuum advance on distributer. Check vacuum lines. unplug lines at intake side while it is running and hold thumb over intake nipples. If idle slows down vacuum advance is working. next check timing. If timing is off car will hesitate when throttle applied. Also check plug gap while you're at it, worn plugs with too big a gap will cause hesitation.
Thanks, I will be sorting a few of those in the next couple days and we actually had to get a used distributor back in 2008 because the module wire inside the distributor was rubbing against the bare metal of the distributor every time the advance kicked in and was causing the car to act funny and then we had one of the two vacuum advance not work if I recall it was the none idle advance.
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myredvert
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myredvert

Quote:
 
on all three cylinders I have about 197 - 200 psi each
That's impressive compression. :thumb

How many miles on the rebuild, and who did the work?
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Woodie
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dvrocc
Jul 24 2014, 05:07 PM
can you imagine if the Geo Metro 1.0L 3 Cyl can with a turbo from the factory back in the day ?
It did. Called a Turbo Firefly.
Quote:
 
and toss in some 120+ octane ultra-light aircraft fuel in the tank
Higher octane fuel actually has less power in it. It allows you to run more ignition advance, which can increase power output a little bit, but there's no big difference.
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myredvert
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myredvert

Quote:
 
and toss in some 120+ octane ultra-light aircraft fuel in the tank
Quote:
 
Higher octane fuel actually has less power in it. It allows you to run more ignition advance, which can increase power output a little bit, but there's no big difference.
That, and there's no such thing as "ultralight aircraft fuel." A few engines commonly used in experimental aircraft (ultralight or otherwise) have compression slightly over 10:1 and some require 91 octane, but most of these engines have roughly the same or less hp than a Metro and compression ratios in the sub 10:1 range, and are specifically designed to run on auto gas because its much cheaper and much more available. A few are designed to also use aviation 100LL (low lead), but these days the average price of 100LL is in the neighborhood of $6.00+/gal.

The by far most common Avgas is 100 LL, which is the same octane as the "old" leaded 100/130 rated fuel that contained more than twice the lead. 100/130 wasn't uncommon back in the day, and we used to buy some at the local airport to use when we raced snowmobiles in the 70s. But the only place I believe you will see the high octane dual rated leaded fuel anymore is something like 115/145 used at the Reno Air Races where some of the WWII aircraft are routinely running 100+ inches manifold pressure.

About the aviation standard "dual rating" system From Wikipedia: "Many grades of avgas are identified by two numbers associated with its Motor Octane Number (MON). The first number indicates the octane rating of the fuel tested to "aviation lean" standards, which is similar to the anti-knock index or "pump rating" given to automotive gasoline in the US. The second number indicates the octane rating of the fuel tested to the "aviation rich" standard, which tries to simulate a supercharged condition with a rich mixture, elevated temperatures, and a high manifold pressure. For example, 100/130 avgas has an octane rating of 100 at the lean settings usually used for cruising and 130 at the rich settings used for take-off and other full-power conditions."
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dvrocc
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myredvert
Jul 25 2014, 01:50 AM
Quote:
 
on all three cylinders I have about 197 - 200 psi each
That's impressive compression. :thumb

How many miles on the rebuild, and who did the work?
It just turned over 182,000 miles Odm about three days ago I wasn't sure at the mileage when I first got the car but back about 11 years ago California had a different type of a layout for the vehicle title before it got revamped which showed the mileage and I recall it being 119,400 roughly and that is when we rebuilt the engine, I got the car from a friend for $100 bucks xD

Me and my father did the work (easy car to work on) dumped $400 into the engine rebuild which was basically the timing belt, bearings crank/rod, one piston, rings set, two exhaust valves, two lifters, head bolts, intake - oil pan - rocker cover - head gasket's, cam seal and some spark plugs all this in 2004. Then in 2006 I hit up the converter, muffler and tail pipe head to toe for $560 at Midas it was way over due! And in 2007 I replaced radiator for $150 which was heavy as hell like 25 pounds when I took it out, full of soot I think the new radiator was like 3 pounds lol

And just got a timing belt, water pump & gasket's, crank & cam seals and a few other gasket's for the front cover for $35 at RockAuto.com when they had a sale (couldn't pass the deal up) so going to tear into it when the temps here drop a bit I don't want to take any chances on the timing belt xD

All in all I paid $100 for the car and put about $1100 to date in the car, decent investment and the gas saved has paid for the car so no QQ here!
Edited by dvrocc, Jul 25 2014, 12:01 PM.
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dvrocc
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myredvert
Jul 25 2014, 09:19 AM
Quote:
 
and toss in some 120+ octane ultra-light aircraft fuel in the tank
Quote:
 
Higher octane fuel actually has less power in it. It allows you to run more ignition advance, which can increase power output a little bit, but there's no big difference.
there's no such thing as "ultralight aircraft fuel.[/i]"
Sorry for the misunderstanding & and may I have spelled ultralight incorrectly, I meant Ultralight aviation (or ultralite to some people) aircraft fuel those aluminum wing jobs, this fuel is different from the auto pump fuel. A friend back in 1991 had one with a 2 stroke 50hp rotax and he always would get his fuel from the public city airport, it smelled different, it looked different and it has 120+ octane for the cheap stuff, the only way to get it back then was if you had a pilot's license, it also cost $1.75 a gallon back in the day. But yeah, the fuel these days are cleaner and tighter public restrictions since 9/11 happened xD
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myredvert
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myredvert

What I explained about aviation fuel had nothing to do with how you spell ultralight.

The 100/130 avgas may have still been available in the early 90s in some places, but the octane is the SAME as 100LL (100 octane), it just had twice the lead and was hard on engines because of it. For all practical purposes, from an octane standpoint, 100/130 and 100LL are basically the same as autogas with an octane rating of 100, but not more. The "130" part of the dual octane rating is an aviation standard used to measure fuel performance at full rich rated takeoff power of HIGH performance aircraft engines at high manifold pressures (which <300hp aircraft engines aren't), and it shouldn't be confused with something like the 120 octane racing fuel used in high performance race cars.

Because Avgas always seems to be roughly 2x the cost of "regular" unleaded autogas, the manufacturers of low hp engines like Rotax and such eventually "approved" the engines to also be able to use autogas because of cost and availability. Very few ultralight or small experimental aircraft even require 91 or higher octane.
Edited by myredvert, Jul 25 2014, 06:24 PM.
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dvrocc
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Added some images and OMG my car needs a major bath!

1991 Geo Metro Engine

1991 Geo Metro Right Side

1991 Geo Metro Left Side

Also I was thinking that it is about time I give a good engine cleaning inside and out, it has some build up on the outside but my concerns are inside the engine and if I should hit up the fuel system also, I was looking at adding some water remover at some point because California fuel stations have lots of water because most gas stations are like 40 years old, I get water in the tank every year since I got the car.
Edited by dvrocc, Jul 25 2014, 10:54 PM.
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