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| Any VW guys lurking here? Girlfriend's car is dying; Video: Really bad knocking sound | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 28 2014, 11:33 AM (2,887 Views) | |
| pdqrunner | Aug 5 2014, 06:56 AM Post #16 |
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The timing belt on a vw is a big job. You need to pull the engine mount to get it off. Replace the water pump while you are at it. |
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| arudlang | Aug 5 2014, 10:48 AM Post #17 |
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Andrew
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Yep the plug body was still threaded in and was removed with a wrench like normal, just the ceramic portion of the plug blew out. The threads seem to be OK and nothing bad visible in the cylinder (from what little we can tell, the borescope I would normally borrow was sold away by its owner ). The belt I knew would be bad, already have a new belt in hand, new water pump, t-stat, etc and have been reading and re-reading instructions on how to replace belt properly, watching you-tube videos, amassing the more 'special' tools I will need but don't have, etc. Its going to be a bear but I think I can manage it. She got the car at 50k and it didn't have a new timing belt then, now at 105k with nothing but an annual oil change now that I am in the picture I'm trying to catch up on all the missed maintenance so it won't die
You can say that again. Too bad they paid a crapload of money for this car when they got it and are unwilling to sell it. I did work my tail off to install a nice remote starter into it for Christmas so after all the work to circumvent the immobilizer and factory alarm, I don't really want to see it go either. Well, I do but I don't
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| snowfish | Aug 5 2014, 12:08 PM Post #18 |
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Basic GearHead
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Looks like you dodged a bullet. Hopefully, with some new plugs, it will sound nice again. But then comes all the other stuff! Oh, boy! Kiah's car is in good hands.
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| arudlang | Aug 7 2014, 08:50 AM Post #19 |
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Andrew
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I threw one new plug in just to see if that cured the noise, I wanted to make sure that banging would go away since there still could have been deeper issues but looks like we are good, it fired right up and ran decent, no strange noises. I rolled it out going to be too busy for a few days but looks like all I need to do now is get 4 GOOD new plugs, probably new wires by the looks of hers, and put in all the other tuneup parts I have been sitting on. Sweet! |
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| Metromightymouse | Aug 7 2014, 08:56 AM Post #20 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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I wish my Passat was going to be that simple. Blown headgasket, blown plastic coolant fitting (from turbo pressurizing the coolant system, and a sensor issue (fingers crossed) that is preventing the car from reading the engine RPM and causing it to shut off immediately after starting. Oh yeah, and when that's fixed there is the whole leaking sunroof drain line to deal with... Bah, tired of this beast. |
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| snowfish | Aug 7 2014, 09:58 AM Post #21 |
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Basic GearHead
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Man, that's a sigh of relief! When everyone was doom, and gloom, you were wise enough to double, double check other possibilities.
Like making that Metro oil pan pretty to bring to the meet.
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| arudlang | Aug 8 2014, 01:47 PM Post #22 |
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Andrew
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Made this just for funzies after one of my coworkers (who uses champion brand plugs in everything) got a look at the bad spark plug I pulled out of the beetle and he laughs and says "Well, I think thats just Champion's new-fangled Automatic-Self-Adjusting-Gap Plug!"
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| snowfish | Aug 8 2014, 02:23 PM Post #23 |
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Basic GearHead
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I am officially in tears!
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| pdqrunner | Aug 8 2014, 05:49 PM Post #24 |
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Back in the day we would make that into a one hitter. |
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| arudlang | Aug 13 2014, 10:48 AM Post #25 |
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Andrew
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Progress update: I'm really deep down the rabbit hole now... (no wait, its a beetle )![]() New timing belt is on, along with new water pump and new t-stat. Now I've got the intake off to make it easier to access the plugs and wires. Also removed air box and battery box, secondary air pump, to get to the starter. (Getting to the starter and getting it off is the first thing I have encountered on this car that has truly sucked, theres no way anyone would be able to simply pop in a new starter if theirs died in a parking lot). The starter needs to come out because it has been *sticking* on startup, wont let go of the flywheel, makes bad grinding noise... Pulled the other plugs out of curiosity...
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| arudlang | Aug 28 2014, 11:10 AM Post #26 |
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Andrew
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New NGK iridium spark plugs, new NGK wire set, and a new aftermarket coil pack (no monies for OEM ). Hopefully this cures the rough running and misfires. The new air filter and fuel filter are sure to help a bit also I'm thinking. I've been sidetracked, though, modifying the battery box to have a thermostat controlled battery heater I am piecing together myself from individual components and going to install a lower radiator hose heater as well.. This car sits outside in northern Minnesota and she has a lot of trouble getting it to start when the temps drop below zero. Part of that is her two year old battery is not great, it seems to lose a much higher percentage of its cranking amps at low temps than most other batteries I've seen, but in the warm weather it works fine so they don't want to replace it. I got a 60 watt battery heater pad for $15 and adding a conservative thermostat control so it won't get wild if she leaves it plugged in for a long time. I figure it doesn't need to bring the battery to summer-day temps, if it can keep it around 35 degrees when ambient is below zero then it will have all the cranking amps it needs and mission will be accomplished. No frost plugs on her block so rad hose heater is the only option there. Anything to get a little stiffness out of the block after sitting in the -40 degree windchills overnight. I worked really hard to (somewhat) cleanly circumvent both the immobilizer and the separate factory alarm system and install a nice remote starter for her last year, and it was super great except for the really cold days (when you want to use it the most) the battery would be too weak and the block too stiff so the remote starter would only succeed in draining the little bit of amps left in the battery resulting in an extra dead car on a cold day. Not happening this year! Going to keep that battery warm and the block warm so it can pop right off. Even when she eventually gets a newer, better battery this bat heater will be a big help, her car draws a crapload of amps right off the bat because she always leaves both heated seats on the highest setting and the heater on full fan speed... I know these things are nice to have on when remote starting but... leave something in the poor battery to crank the starter too please
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| mwebb | Sep 6 2014, 12:26 AM Post #27 |
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FOG
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it takes 10 to 15 minutes to replace the ign wires without removing the intake plenum ..... use only oil that says VW 502 somewhere on the bottle which is ACEA A3 B3 A3 B4 as per mother VW or you will be punished by the engine replace the battery , a marginal battery will destroy the alternator and burn fuse block a (see Below) then look above the battery at fuse block A look at the eyelets , first eye from the left with knees on the bumper is the connection from the alternator to the battery if that gets hot engine running or if it looks crispy , replace the eye let , use solder and shrink and replace the fuse block if burned to the passat guy there is no connection from boost to coolant in a 1.8t passat , none but the impellers are known to separate from the shaft on the water pumps plastic flange the holds g62 at the rear of the cyl just dissolves at around 100k miles g28 will cause no start and show no rpm on tach when it fails g28 is engine speed sensor / ckp / crankshaft sensor under oil filter area not fun for rookies about 30 minutes for me when you do the head gasket you will need the socket to remove and replace the cyl head bolts , it is unique to VW . also replace gasket under cam actuator use only vw 502 oil in that engine too , if the engine is sludged now because you used the wrong oil , quit while you are behind buy another metro to both of you use only top tier fuel , mother vw is a signatory on the top tier fuel car manufacturer list , there is a reason for that i am a vw tech, have been for many moons Edited by mwebb, Sep 6 2014, 12:31 AM.
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| Metromightymouse | Sep 6 2014, 03:35 AM Post #28 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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Mr. Webb, I am aware that there is no connection from boost to the coolant passages under normal circumstances. This is what has led me to believe the head gasket is blown and allowing boost pressure into the coolant system. I haven't diagnosed it to the point that it is an absolute yet, but that is my strong suspicion. The plastic flange was the first failure, blew a dime sized chunk out of it. I had seen the temp increasing, threw on the heater at full blast and when the temp started to spike again I shut it down just as the dash said to stop in double height bold letters. The fitting was replaced and it ran normal but started having overheating issues on the freeway. Temp behaved normal during warm up and kicking on the heater would bring the temps back in line. Further investigation discovered the fan clutch was bad, replaced it. The coolant tank was then found to have multiple splits that were leaking under pressure, replaced it. At this point it was parked for further investigation and it developed the problem with starting and then immediately shutting down. This issue was assumed to be the crank sensor, which has not been replaced or the connection checked (thanks for it's location, hadn't even looked that part up yet). I got it to start one day and took it for a spin up the road and back. Temp was behaving absolutely normal. Got hard into the boost a couple of times to see if the temp issue would resurface. Everything seemed fine and I pulled it into the driveway. As it was sitting and idling with everything seeming fine the temp started to spike. Shut it down and opened the door to discover a river of coolant running down the driveway. Looking under the hood I discovered the new plastic flange had blown out. It hasn't started and run since (no tach signal). So my thought is head gasket allowing boost pressure into the coolant passages under boost. You are proposing a separated water pump impeller causing reduced coolant flow. While I won't totally discount the possibility as it does fit some of the symptoms, especially overheating at freeway speeds, it doesn't seem to fit the last failure. Temp reading appears to move normally and react to changes indicating some coolant flow. If it was bursting parts due to overheating it seems I would register higher spikes in the temperature before the failure. Instead, I get temperature spikes after the coolant starts escaping. The only way I can resolve the conflict there is by assuming the pressure in the coolant passages as it reaches operating temp stops the impeller from spinning, then after there is a failure from it overheating enough to blow a part up and the pressure drops it can spin again allowing the temp sensor to show it overheating. As a VW tech, I am interested in your take on this. |
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| mwebb | Sep 6 2014, 10:11 PM Post #29 |
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FOG
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combustion to coolant is your pathway so take out all 4 spark plugs look for 1 clean spark plug that will be the leaking cylinder or look in the spark plug holes at the top of the piston (use flashlight or bore scope ) the clean piston to is the leaking cylinder do not remove the cyl head until you find the leak with a cooling system pressure tester and spark plugs removed (and new flange in place) apply pressure to cooling system watch for leak .... very rarely the oil coolers leak internally , if there was oil in the old coolant bottle suspect the oil cooler OR transmission oil cooler (if auto trans) |
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| arudlang | Sep 7 2014, 01:42 PM Post #30 |
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Andrew
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Thank you for the advice mwebb, I will do my best!
I know the plenum didn't really have to come off just to change the plugs and wires, but I pulled it anyways just because I wanted to be able to see down into the cylinder holes better and just kinda eyeball it in case of any other issues hiding behind the blown spark plug. And also, I really wanted to paint that intake piece
Yeah... I'll have to get something good for future oil changes. I'm afraid the engine likely is sludged if not from me using mid-tier oil the last couple changes then probably because she only had the oil changed once or twice a year at a mom & pop garage before I knew her. She is not going to give up this car unless its absolutely dead, though, I'm afraid.
I'll try to convince her to do that. I always use the middle of the road 89 octane in my cars at stores that are known non-ethanol gas providers. Overall update: Things are coming along pretty well. I got it all back together last weekend and put about 350 miles on it this week testing it out. It starts and runs GREAT, motor-wise. Got the coolant heater and battery heater pad installed nice and cleanly. (coolant heater did NOT go into the bottom rad hose, btw, as they have the thermostat on the bottom of these cars). Her old fuel filter was super clogged, thats probably the main reason it was running like crap. It was stamped with a VW/audi logo which makes me wonder if it could be original. Everything is great with the motor for now but there is some kind of balance issue with one of the tires I want to resolve. I will first pull all four tires and clean the years of brake dust grime she has in there as that alone may be the problem. Then there is some intermittent transmission... hesitations... I think her transmission is on its way out. Sometimes it has some kind of 'mis-shift' from 1-2 or when you are rolling along at 20 mph and the light turns green, hit the gas and it kinda clunks into a gear... sometimes it takes a little too long to shift into reverse or drive... the guys at newbeetle.org tell me it likely traces back to a known defect that causes short life in these transmissions. I'm just going to put in a new trans filter and some new fluid today and hope for the best. Like I said, her average trip is about a mile from her house either to school or to work, except for a series of cross country road trips her and her mom USED to take it on, it doesn't get that many miles these days so maybe it will cling to life long enough for her to get through school. I don't know, all I know is that I've done the best I can in my sad little home garage at a time where she has zero money to take it and and have things done profesionally, and that my hopes of selling the 97 monte carlo I acquired in a recent trade are fading fast because I'm pretty sure I'm going to need a spare vehicle on hand for her... My painting turned out nice. If the transmission does go out at least it will look well kept when she sells it for whatever a beetle with a blown transmission is worth! ![]() Edited by arudlang, Sep 7 2014, 01:44 PM.
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Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.




).
now that I am in the picture I'm trying to catch up on all the missed maintenance so it won't die


Hopefully, with some new plugs, it will sound nice again.
Kiah's car is in good hands.

I wish my Passat was going to be that simple. Blown headgasket, blown plastic coolant fitting (from turbo pressurizing the coolant system, and a sensor issue (fingers crossed) that is preventing the car from reading the engine RPM and causing it to shut off immediately after starting.
When everyone was doom, and gloom, you were wise enough to double, double check other possibilities.
)
I think her transmission is on its way out. Sometimes it has some kind of 'mis-shift' from 1-2 or when you are rolling along at 20 mph and the light turns green, hit the gas and it kinda clunks into a gear... sometimes it takes a little too long to shift into reverse or drive... the guys at newbeetle.org tell me it likely traces back to a known defect that causes short life in these transmissions. I'm just going to put in a new trans filter and some new fluid today and hope for the best. Like I said, her average trip is about a mile from her house either to school or to work, except for a series of cross country road trips her and her mom USED to take it on, it doesn't get that many miles these days so maybe it will cling to life long enough for her to get through school. 
2:26 PM Jul 11