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What oil do you guys run?
Topic Started: Aug 18 2014, 08:16 PM (4,292 Views)
Cubey
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elijah
Aug 20 2014, 07:33 PM
Maybe I need to learn something new then, is it not true that a a 0w-(whatever) will not move more freely than a 5 or 10w-(whatever) when the engine is first started up and cold, whether the outside temp is 30 degrees or 100 degrees? I'm only referencing cold startup here, where more wear and tear occurs then when engine is at operating temp.
No.

First: In 30 degrees Fahrenheit weather, 10W-*, 5W-* and 0W-* will all act exactly the same at startup since they are all within the range of cold weather start ups. They will also act all the same at 100 degree startups.

Second: 0W-* withstands extreme cold better than 10W-* or 5W-*. Extreme meaning a temperature colder than anyone in the main 48 states will most likely ever experience. (Let's hope so anyway)

Examples:

10W-30 is rated to minus 20 degrees Fahrenheit. That's 52 degrees below freezing.
5W-30 is rated to minus 30 degrees Fahrenheit. That's 62 degrees below freezing.
0W-30 is rated even lower, but I can't actually find any exact temperature numbers.

If you are experiencing minus 30 degrees Fahrenheit, you better hope your Metro has true 50/50 antifreeze or 60% antifreeze/40% water. My 1993 Metro original owner's manual states on page 202 that the car is rated to -33 degrees F (-36 C) with a proper 50/50 mixture. You'd be cutting it REALLY close with 50/50! A 4 degree drop and you're gonna be buying a new radiator and perhaps engine too unless you drained it entirely and left the radiator cap off for extra safety ... assuming it's outdoors and doesn't have some sort of block heater running to keep it warm, anyway.

So my point is.... 0W-30 is overkill unless you're in an arctic zone where you're having to run a high antifreeze mixture beyond 50/50.
Edited by Cubey, Aug 20 2014, 08:22 PM.
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elijah
Elite Member
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Cubey
Aug 20 2014, 08:20 PM
elijah
Aug 20 2014, 07:33 PM
Maybe I need to learn something new then, is it not true that a a 0w-(whatever) will not move more freely than a 5 or 10w-(whatever) when the engine is first started up and cold, whether the outside temp is 30 degrees or 100 degrees? I'm only referencing cold startup here, where more wear and tear occurs then when engine is at operating temp.
No.

First: In 30 degrees Fahrenheit weather, 10W-*, 5W-* and 0W-* will all act exactly the same at startup since they are all within the range of cold weather start ups. They will also act all the same at 100 degree startups.

Second: 0W-* withstands extreme cold better than 10W-* or 5W-*. Extreme meaning a temperature colder than anyone in the main 48 states will most likely ever experience. (Let's hope so anyway)

Examples:

10W-30 is rated to minus 20 degrees Fahrenheit. That's 52 degrees below freezing.
5W-30 is rated to minus 30 degrees Fahrenheit. That's 62 degrees below freezing.
0W-30 is rated even lower, but I can't actually find any exact temperature numbers.

If you are experiencing minus 30 degrees Fahrenheit, you better hope your Metro has true 50/50 antifreeze or 60% antifreeze/40% water. My 1993 Metro original owner's manual states on page 202 that the car is rated to -33 degrees F (-36 C) with a proper 50/50 mixture. You'd be cutting it REALLY close with 50/50! A 4 degree drop and you're gonna be buying a new radiator and perhaps engine too unless you drained it entirely and left the radiator cap off for extra safety ... assuming it's outdoors and doesn't have some sort of block heater running to keep it warm, anyway.

So my point is.... 0W-30 is overkill unless you're in an arctic zone where you're having to run a high antifreeze mixture beyond 50/50.
I'm sorry, this just appears to be contrary to everything I've read on BITOG.com as well as on the Mobil1 website, https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Hot_Weather_Collection.aspx

Maybe it's just an agree to disagree moment. :cheers
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Freeman
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The Family Man

0w-30 will be thinner at start up than 10w-30 or 30w. 40w will stay thicker in higher heat than 30w.

I would trust Mobil1 to a certain degree. They are oil manufacturers and they know what oil is designed for what application. I would not, however, buy into any of their special oils too much without knowing what additives are within them.

Cheers
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Silver2K


You can google the data sheet for each oil manufacturer & see what they specify for a specific oil. Google the name of the manufacturer, the grade and "cst". For example "valvoline 10w-30 cst" will get you to

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife.pdf

You will see each manufacturer specifies the viscosity at 40C (104F) and 100C (212F), and a viscosity index which tells you how to interpolate the viscosity at different temperatures.

If you look at enough of these sheets you will conclude: 1) For a given grade, the viscosity varies between manufacturers 2) oils with lower W numbers tend to have lower viscosity at 100C (for the same grade) 3) you have to wonder why the viscosity is only specified at 104 & 212.
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Cubey
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elijah
Aug 21 2014, 08:06 AM
Cubey
Aug 20 2014, 08:20 PM
elijah
Aug 20 2014, 07:33 PM
Maybe I need to learn something new then, is it not true that a a 0w-(whatever) will not move more freely than a 5 or 10w-(whatever) when the engine is first started up and cold, whether the outside temp is 30 degrees or 100 degrees? I'm only referencing cold startup here, where more wear and tear occurs then when engine is at operating temp.
No.

First: In 30 degrees Fahrenheit weather, 10W-*, 5W-* and 0W-* will all act exactly the same at startup since they are all within the range of cold weather start ups. They will also act all the same at 100 degree startups.

Second: 0W-* withstands extreme cold better than 10W-* or 5W-*. Extreme meaning a temperature colder than anyone in the main 48 states will most likely ever experience. (Let's hope so anyway)

Examples:

10W-30 is rated to minus 20 degrees Fahrenheit. That's 52 degrees below freezing.
5W-30 is rated to minus 30 degrees Fahrenheit. That's 62 degrees below freezing.
0W-30 is rated even lower, but I can't actually find any exact temperature numbers.

If you are experiencing minus 30 degrees Fahrenheit, you better hope your Metro has true 50/50 antifreeze or 60% antifreeze/40% water. My 1993 Metro original owner's manual states on page 202 that the car is rated to -33 degrees F (-36 C) with a proper 50/50 mixture. You'd be cutting it REALLY close with 50/50! A 4 degree drop and you're gonna be buying a new radiator and perhaps engine too unless you drained it entirely and left the radiator cap off for extra safety ... assuming it's outdoors and doesn't have some sort of block heater running to keep it warm, anyway.

So my point is.... 0W-30 is overkill unless you're in an arctic zone where you're having to run a high antifreeze mixture beyond 50/50.
I'm sorry, this just appears to be contrary to everything I've read on BITOG.com as well as on the Mobil1 website, https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Hot_Weather_Collection.aspx

Maybe it's just an agree to disagree moment. :cheers
Those Q&As had nothing to do with staying with the same trailing number.

One question asked about 0W-20 is good for FL and the answer was "use 5W-30". In another, they tell someone to run 15W-50 in a Ford F150! It seems highly suspect for Mobile 1 to recommend using a thicker oil than the car manufacturer does, yet they have some idiot telling people to run heavier oils than their OEM recommends.

They don't have scientists answering the questions. They have some low paid dork who probably reads from a sheet to try to come up with answers that sound legit without understanding what they are saying.
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cwatkin


I figure the Mobil 1 0W40 meets the more stringent European specs (if it is good enough for Mercedes and BMW, it is good enough for a Geo), provides better cold and hot weather protection, and costs the same as any other Mobil 1 product (at least how I buy it). They way I look at it is you are getting the MWebb alphabet or gold plated oil as some call it for the same price as any other M1 product. Many here use an M1 product anyway so I see this as a good option if you don't mind paying the going rate for this type of oil.

I am usually able to get 5 quarts of this oil for $22-25 or a little more than $30 with a filter included. These cars are super easy for DIY oil changes so taking it somewhere isn't even a concern.

Conor
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Cubey
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cwatkin
Aug 21 2014, 12:09 PM
I figure the Mobil 1 0W40 meets the more stringent European specs (if it is good enough for Mercedes and BMW, it is good enough for a Geo), provides better cold and hot weather protection, and costs the same as any other Mobil 1 product (at least how I buy it). They way I look at it is you are getting the MWebb alphabet or gold plated oil as some call it for the same price as any other M1 product. Many here use an M1 product anyway so I see this as a good option if you don't mind paying the going rate for this type of oil.

I am usually able to get 5 quarts of this oil for $22-25 or a little more than $30 with a filter included. These cars are super easy for DIY oil changes so taking it somewhere isn't even a concern.

Conor
It's also not the *W-30 weight oil GEO and SUZUKI recommends you use. But if it's working for you, great. I would not switch to a 40 weight on a 30 weight engine unless I was burning oil.
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cwatkin


It was explained to me that this is a "thin" 40W oil. As someone suggested, there are variances in the viscosities of oil with the same specified weight. I have also heard that the Rotella T6 5W40 is a much thicker 40W oil at operating temp. I have heard about people using this in their Geo. I don't do this but use it in all my air cooled engines that call for 10W30 or similar. They seem to love it.

I understand that a *W40 oil isn't what GM or Suzuki specified. Another thing is that oil has come a LONG way since these little cars were designed 30 or so years ago. We didn't have grades of oil with such a high viscosity range and such. I made sure to ask here before going to a *W40 oil and no one here seemed to think it would be an issue. In fact many said it was the perfect oil for this engine and these are people who know a lot more about the G10 than I do. My experience with this oil has been very favorable so I see no reason to change to something else.

Conor
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Coche Blanco
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Troll Certified

cwatkin
Aug 21 2014, 12:24 PM
It was explained to me that this is a "thin" 40W oil. As someone suggested, there are variances in the viscosities of oil with the same specified weight. I have also heard that the Rotella T6 5W40 is a much thicker 40W oil at operating temp. I have heard about people using this in their Geo. I don't do this but use it in all my air cooled engines that call for 10W30 or similar. They seem to love it.

I understand that a *W40 oil isn't what GM or Suzuki specified. Another thing is that oil has come a LONG way since these little cars were designed 30 or so years ago. We didn't have grades of oil with such a high viscosity range and such. I made sure to ask here before going to a *W40 oil and no one here seemed to think it would be an issue. In fact many said it was the perfect oil for this engine and these are people who know a lot more about the G10 than I do. My experience with this oil has been very favorable so I see no reason to change to something else.

Conor
Yes, something like it behaves more like 5w30 than 0w40. I also thought the W stood for weight... so I wouldn't listen to me. lol
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jonathan180iq
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Not Really All That Smart

Oil conversations... Where's MWebb?
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ZXTjato
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bass heads

jonathan180iq
Aug 21 2014, 03:36 PM
Oil conversations... Where's MWebb?
That would be like :monkeyfight :shit :holycrap :horse :shtf :ahh
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truckjohn


My Geo LOVES Zee Expenzeev Chermannnn oil..... Yeah.. The stuff that's $48/5-l bottle...

I would never have believed it made any difference.... but it does....

My geo would go through like a quart every 600 miles with the Cheap Wal-Mart blue bottle oil.... That expensive German oil is like a cup every 600 miles... AND... The little 3-banger runs so much quieter....

So... That's what she gets... I run almost 10,000 miles per oil change with it... but that's like 2 months of driving....
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happydriver
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Sedan Love

So if 0w-30 is thinner when its cold, It may be ideal if your trying to figure out if your infact having lubrication issues. If its thinner when cold then it should travel through areas that may be partially clogged like oil ports or or strainer. Then as the oil warms up it would thicken. Would you all agree that makes since? To me oil wont thicken when its warm. It would be thicker when cold. Example would be lucas oil treatment. Stick a fresh bottle in the freezer for a few hours. Then take it out and try to pour it out. Then sit it in your car for a few hours with the windows up so it gets really warm. Your conclusion will be it will pour out much easier than when cold. This has been my experience anyways.
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Cubey
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happydriver
Aug 21 2014, 09:03 PM
So if 0w-30 is thinner when its cold, It may be ideal if your trying to figure out if your infact having lubrication issues. If its thinner when cold then it should travel through areas that may be partially clogged like oil ports or or strainer. Then as the oil warms up it would thicken. Would you all agree that makes since? To me oil wont thicken when its warm. It would be thicker when cold. Example would be lucas oil treatment. Stick a fresh bottle in the freezer for a few hours. Then take it out and try to pour it out. Then sit it in your car for a few hours with the windows up so it gets really warm. Your conclusion will be it will pour out much easier than when cold. This has been my experience anyways.
:smackface

0W-30 is thinner than 10W-30 or 5W-30 when cold, but it's not thinner than itself when cold.

AND AGAIN: You'd have to get 20 to 30 degrees below zero (52 to 62 degrees below freezing) before it matters compared to 10W-30 or 5W-30! Anything above those temps and 0W-30 won't make any cold weather temp at all!

I think I'm done in this thread. This is at least the third time I've said this same exact thing. :shake

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happydriver
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Sedan Love

:D ok
Edited by happydriver, Aug 21 2014, 09:26 PM.
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