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| How much does it cost to build a $6,800 car?; Yes, I'm talking Elio... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 20 2014, 02:22 AM (1,957 Views) | |
| nerys | Aug 21 2014, 01:52 AM Post #16 |
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Grr
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gear ratio would not need to be changed. the metro is AERO limited not MASS limited. go drive your metro 500 miles. what is your mpg. now toss 500 pounds into it and drive it another 500 miles. what is your mpg? now strap a 3ft by 2ft plank to the roof and drive 500 miles. what is your mpg? the metro is AERO limited not MASS limited. unless your in the city then mass is everything. I am pretty sure the 84mpg claim is for the MANUAL transmission (it will be available in both) I doubt the automatic will see anything close to 84mpg though it could see 50 or 60 depending on the transmission they use. hell a METRO auto could see 50 if they mated a proper transmission to it. I can squeeze 65mpg our of my 280,000 mile 20 year old metro xfi. so 84 mpg is NOT a stretch even with an old worn stock metro drive train. I mean I did 70mph going to geopalooza over mountains zero eoc or hyper miling with a bad clutch making me climb in 4th most of the time and still swung 58mpg both ways. Just shy of 59mpg on an engine never intended to run on Ethanol. not bad. $6800? totally doable in my book. I mean a few years ago Nissan was selling a $9500 car. that is a full size 4 door sedan. throw away half the car and throw away 90% of the government red tape (by making it a motorcycle) and $6800 is quite within the realm of reasonable and possible. NOW all that being said. will they make one? my heart wants to say yes. my brain says probably not sadly :-( |
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| aaronvincent | Aug 21 2014, 02:19 AM Post #17 |
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Mr Mojo Risin'
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Nerys, have you ever driven one of Nissan's $9500 sedans (The Versa)? I have...absolute trash. I mean every bit of that. Flimsy suspension components, sub-standard crash protection, hideous design, cheap cheap cheap materials (both inside and out!) and of course the famous reliability of a modern Nissan (about 80,000 miles before it explodes). Even if the Elio never exists it will still be better than a Nissan Versa. That being said if Elio wants to take money from stupid people...let them. Those of us who still retain a shred of intelligence (a commodity in this time) know what's what and will not be handing over even a dollar to these liars. If you'll allow me to put down my cynicism for a moment, perhaps this whole Elio business is just what happens when "wishful thinking" meets "ignorance" with a splash of good intentions thrown in. Maybe they're not corporate pigs...just naive fools.
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| Freeman | Aug 21 2014, 05:41 AM Post #18 |
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The Family Man
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CVT? Isn't that what all the sharp crayons are using these days? I heard all the chipper cookies were loving the CVT over a manual for MPG purposes. |
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| myredvert | Aug 21 2014, 07:09 AM Post #19 |
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myredvert
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Once I had an aerodynamicist use statements like that to try to explain how this all works.... Wait. No I didn't. There were moments where I thought "oh, so that's what you're trying to get at," then a second later... And an apple would taste like an orange if they made it taste like an orange. Edited by myredvert, Aug 21 2014, 08:46 AM.
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| Freeman | Aug 21 2014, 08:33 AM Post #20 |
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The Family Man
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This is like saying I could run faster than an Olympic sprinter if I had trained my whole life. IF is the key word and literally throws any argument out the window because anything is possible, in theory, when you include 'if'. |
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| nerys | Aug 21 2014, 09:48 AM Post #21 |
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Grr
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tell me you guys are not this dense? the ONLY reason the auto metro gets crap fuel economy is because its screaming at 4000 rpm at highway speeds. (or whatever it does you get my point) it is flat out the WRONG damned transmission for the car. use the RIGHT transmission (an auto with the gear ratio's more like the manual) and it will get SIMILAR though not quite as good fuel economy. I don't care if the versa is made like crap. it proves my point. YOU CAN build a car for $6800 without much trouble at all. hell a nice chunk of the cost of a car is "red tape" and most of that goes poof once you put it on 3 wheels. now whether you CAN make a car for $6800 (yes you can. fact) has NOTHING to do with WILL elio make one (doubtful, my opinion) I HOPE they do. but I won't hold my breath. |
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| robertino | Aug 22 2014, 12:13 AM Post #22 |
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like Jonathan6229 said " A haters gona hate " Can anyone remember how much the first Geo Metro cost when it came out ...$5999.What kinda of discussions do you think were going around in regards to the Metro. I can guaranty that there were naysayers that denounced it as a bunch of bull. Given the fact that this car was $1000 cheaper than a Ford Escort and $400 less than the cheapest Civic. And Elio is going to sell his for 6800. when the cheapest car today is a Nissan Versa for $12,800. But lets put that into perspective shall we !? for 6800 I'm getting 1 door 2 seats 3 wheels and 1 less cylinder. If it was more than 6800 I would have a hard time swallowing it. Your getting 1/2 the car and people are having a hard time understanding why it doesn't cost more ? If I'm getting 1/2 the car I want 1/2 the price ! Also...the government should give them that loan!! The Dept Of Energy gave Fisker 190 million of a loan of up to 529 million for a car that only the rich could afford and then it went belly up. Now we have a guy who's lined up suppliers for parts and service on his own , has a car that will be built in America. And now he needs some help to build a car that everyone can afford. Why does anyone on this forum have a problem with that is beyond me. I'm warning you now ...when this car is first rolling off the assembly line and into garages , I'm finding every one of your negative post and give all of you and I'm sure I wont be the only one. |
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| perfesser | Aug 22 2014, 01:22 AM Post #23 |
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Elite Member - Former Metro owner
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I'll take my chances with that. If you knew better what you're talking about I think you'd be less certain and more skeptical. Your "logic" is simplistic and naive. Why don't you start your search now and see if you can maybe learn something before the Elio starts rolling off the assembly line, because that's never going to happen. Edited by perfesser, Aug 22 2014, 01:23 AM.
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| Metromightymouse | Aug 22 2014, 04:13 AM Post #24 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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My original stance on the Elio was that I knew he had convinced some big investors to get on board and used that to get going. I figured those people whose job is to asses the potential of a new business had to be pretty convinced to write the check and that lent it some legitimacy. Unfortunately it looks more like they were just taking a flyer on the possible future earnings with some spare cash that was lying around. Number one, I saw someone list his credentials the other day and the fact that there wasn't a big emphasis on engineering and manufacturing and successfully running a business at any level is telling. I would give money to Moller before I would give anything to Elio. How many patents does he have exactly? How many does Moller have. There are a lot of similarities between the two, really. Moller has a multi year head start, more engineering savvy, and actual resultant products that are sold to the public (besides marketing t-shirts and koozies). Elio has yet to build anything production focused. All he has done is have a metal guy put together a custom car out of a metro and a few other car parts and had a photoshop specialist make cool interior shots. Nothing produce-able has been made. He has no tooling. The factory that he CAN lease at some point in the future if he has the money does have the machines to make a vehicle but all the tooling has to be changed. Perfesser would have to answer about how long an order for the tooling would take, but I bet it makes his latest release date impossible unless he already has an agreement with someone who has the specs in hand and will drop everything to make his stuff (just not likely). There is a way that there could be an Elio sold to the public (beyond the mules being sold at a bankruptcy auction) and that is if he produced them like a Morgan, and he still doesn't have the tooling for that level of production, but it's a lot closer than a factory capable of producing 250,000 a year, which is so unrealistic a goal as to be laughable. He certainly won't sell that many in the first few years while cautious people wait to see if they will last and if they are a death trap etc. In it's best year so far the Prius only sold 147,500 in one year in the US and it only took Toyota 13 years to do it. It took them 6 years to break 100,000 units in a year. Is Elio going to have the funding to keep going for the years it's going to take to actually produce enough vehicles to turn a profit? Since he is scraping for cash just to even start the process I doubt it. We all could go on but why? There has been enough clear, logical and healthy skepticism written on this forum to debunk the likelihood of ever seeing a successful run of Elios in the distant future. At worst it is a scam, at best he is a dreamer who has maybe a 1% chance of success and is dragging as many people down with him as possible. The middle road is he has justified it in his mind that if they put a deposit on a car then they likely could afford to pay it without getting anything in return anyway, so it's a win, win. Talk to us when ANY of the big dominoes fall. All this little marketing BS and recycled sales pitches with the media don't amount to anything. Building another custom car is pointless. Repainting an existing mule is nothing. Shelby used tricks like that, but everything he was working with actually existed, all he was doing was combining stuff from others production lines, tricking investors to bring in the money to produce cars and the public to create a sense of an existing product is savvy. Doing the same when you are so far from having what you need to actually make the first real example smacks of scam in a big way. When there is more than empty promises and arrangements and deals, when there is something real and tangible, then we can talk about the possibility of this car coming to market. |
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| Woodie | Aug 22 2014, 04:41 AM Post #25 |
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I'll give you that it makes more sense than Fisker. They weren't even built in the States. I have a problem with the government "giving" anything to anyone whatsoever. In the first place, the government has nothing to give, they have to steal it from you and me first. In the second place, read the Constitution, it's none of their business. |
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| Freeman | Aug 22 2014, 05:46 AM Post #26 |
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The Family Man
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I think the 3-speed is the issue, not the automatic. Also, a CVT would greatly improve fuel economy over the auto and marginally over the manual. |
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| poorman1 | Aug 22 2014, 06:42 AM Post #27 |
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I heard they signed a contract with Geo Jeff to build their engines |
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| Metromightymouse | Aug 22 2014, 06:49 AM Post #28 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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He does have new not rebuilt motors apparently.
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| myredvert | Aug 22 2014, 08:18 AM Post #29 |
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myredvert
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Ever listen to the Bob and Tom Show and hear any of the Mr. Obvious segments? I just found found the comment a little entertaining becasue it reminded me so much of one of my all time favorite radio bits, that's all. Maybe I should have tried a slightly different approach, sorry. Maybe something along the lines of....
You should be pleased to hear that every year older I get, my molecular spacing seems to be steadily increasing. I also congratulate you on having been appointed the Supreme Determiner of "RIGHT" and "WRONG" when it comes to everyone elses' personal taste and choice in transmission types. Should be a good fit. Their marketing types both share a similar lack of objective reality. I'm confused though by one thing, if he has NEW engines that he installs, then why do they need "built" let alone "RE-built?" Is he getting them from Suzuki in kit form? Edited by myredvert, Aug 22 2014, 08:25 AM.
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| marxtoys | Aug 22 2014, 10:25 AM Post #30 |
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stuck in a dent
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lmao ranting about how crappy a cheap car is on a GEO METRO forum.
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Welcome to the all new Geo Metro Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.




If you'll allow me to put down my cynicism for a moment, perhaps this whole Elio business is just what happens when "wishful thinking" meets "ignorance" with a splash of good intentions thrown in. Maybe they're not corporate pigs...just naive fools.
and I'm sure I wont be the only one. 


9:28 AM Jul 11