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Here it is!; What to call it? It will be TED
Topic Started: Aug 21 2014, 12:25 PM (13,301 Views)
freegeo
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This is the car that I couldn't resist buying.

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It was listed on craigslist for $400. Called the guy and he was honest with me, the car needs work. I'm not scared of doing some work so I ask him more questions about the car. He told me the car overheats and you couldn't drive it more than a couple of miles without the car dieing. He sent me some pics of the underneath of the car and it looked solid. Told me the car originally came from Arizona I think. Some place near if it wasn't Arizona were the vehicles don't usually rust.

So I made arragements with him to go see it. About a 2 hour drive. Talked the wife into going so it would give us some quality time together. Was going to take my truck but couldn't get a tow dolly so just drove my Metro.

Car ran really bad, Once warmed up which it was already. Wouldn't start without opening the throttle some. Virbrated like it had just one motor mount in it. Lifters were ticking. I knew the motor probably was about shot. The body was basicly rust free. Has a few dents in the fenders, but I have extra panels from the free metro I got from my brother. (hence that's how I got my user name for the metro forum, freegeo)

Normally I wouldn't buy a car with that many problems, but the body was in so good shape I couldn't resist.

Paid for it and picked it up the next weekend. My brother drove with me just in case i had any problems.

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Like the picture shows it has just under 148,000 miles on it.

After getting it home I wanted to see what the engine internally had wrong with it. Did a compression check on it and it had around 160 psi on #1 and 3 cylinders. Number 2 barley had 90psi. Bingo! That's why it vibrates so badly when running after it gets warmed up. Ran decent when cold.

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More to come, I'll update more later since I have had the car a while now and am in the process of rebuilding the engine.

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TimmyD
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A Metro Driver

Good for you - looks like it has potential to provide at least another 148K miles to the new owner.
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econoboxer
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I am the one on the left.

Looks like fun
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happydriver
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Sedan Love

Thats awesome. Like Ive said several times on here I cant wait to get a hatch.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

freegeo
Aug 21 2014, 12:25 PM
So I made arragements with him to go see it. About a 2 hour drive. Talked the wife into going so it would give us some quality time together. Was going to take my truck but couldn't get a tow dolly so just drove my Metro.
Nice buy! :banana

How did the wife feel about it? Does she have her own Geo or does she want one?
My wife and I are like that getting 'quality time,' when we go for her work however, we call it 'going on a bad date.' :rofl

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freegeo
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Bad Bent
Aug 22 2014, 01:30 AM


How did the wife feel about it? Does she have her own Geo or does she want one?
My wife and I are like that getting 'quality time,' when we go for her work however, we call it 'going on a bad date.
My wife loves the car. She drove mine for about a month while I got the fuel pump fixed on hers car ( happened in the dead of winter and no way to get it in the garage). She didn't want to give it back. It gets really good gas mileage compared to her car and van. My metro is just a beater, not much to look at but in good shape.

She wants to drive the one I'm rebuilding the engine in but I don't want to give it up. Her only requirement is I have to make sure the A/C is working. With the 3 metro's I have surely I can get one to have working A/C.

My wife and I work different shifts and I usually work 6 days a week so we don't have a lot of time together. Was nice to be able to take a long drive together.

After the first metro I was hooked. I'm looking on craigslist about every day to see if there are any up for sale.
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Nice.

I'm glad there is a Metro in her future, eh. :thumb
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freegeo
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So after finding the # 2 cylinder is low on compression I decided to pull the head and see what was going on. Figured it probably had a burnt valve. No burnt valve but not in the best of shape.

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The block looked like this.

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So out came the engine and I started taking it apart. The cam in the head looked pretty good. Gave me hope that the crank and connecting rod journals would be in good shape. Bearings looked in pretty bad shape. Pitted and worn. Journals had some groves but not deep ones. Should have guessed it since the PO had run it hot until it would die.

I have a friend that is retired and was a tool maker at the factory we worked at. He has some bore gauges and let me use them to get an idea what shape the cylinders are in. # 1 and 3 are around .005" out of round. So it is time for a rebuild. No sticking in new rings and trying to get away with that. So the # 2 cylinder is about .015" out of round. WELL CRAP! Now I'm not sure if you can bore it over .020 with the cylinder out of round that much.

Time to look for a machine shop to check out the cylinders and see what can be done with it.

First place I called is not to far away. Could tell just by talking to him he probably won't be doing my engine. Asked him about prices. $40 to milled the head flat, $100 to bore the block and $100 to turn down the crank which he has to send out to someplace else. He can't bore anything under 3". Which my engine is just under 3". Asked him about clearances that he can hold for piston to cylinder. Oh about a .001" But if this is just an old beater you could probably get away with .003" to .004". I'm thinking it is already past the service limit at that.

At this point I'm thinking this is not the person I want touching my engine. Time to look for someone else.

Call my son to find out the person that did his engine for his chevelle. He gave me the name of the place and number.

Have to continue this later, time to get ready for work now. Just wait it gets better!

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ZXTjato
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bass heads

Geos are like potato chips, can't have just ONE.


Who said this quote by the way? It was not me it was some one elce.
Edited by ZXTjato, Aug 22 2014, 12:59 PM.
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nwgeo


:gp :rofl Yep.
Edited by nwgeo, Aug 22 2014, 11:07 PM.
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freegeo
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So I called the guy at the machine shop to find out what his prices are. I told him what I have. A 1.0 liter from a geo metro. He says ya I get one or two of those a year. He says he charges 60 to bore the block, 85 to turn the crank and 35 to mill the head. Prices seem reasonable and he can bore something under 3".

So the following monday I take the head and block with crank up to him. This place has motor parts sitting everywhere. He asks me what I needed and I said I have a block and head I'd like for him to check out. We walk out to the metro and I opened the back hatch and he says. Wow you have one in the front and the back.

I explained to him I'd like to have the head redone. New valves guides, valve seats ground and the head milled flat. I already had the valves. I asked him if he could measure the cylinders in the block. The middle one was out of round quite a bit and i wasn't sure if I could use a .020" over piston. He said after he got done boring the job he was on he could measure the block and give me a call.

That day before I went to work he called me and said he came up with .011" out of round. Better than the .015" I had. He said a .020" oversized would work so I told him I would order my pistons. Once I got them I would bring them up and we could talk about what the block would cost.

Got my piston ordered from topline. Took a couple of days to get.

The following monday I took the pistons up to him. The guy is pretty busy but takes the time to stop and see what I got. I told him I got my pistons. He gets kinda upset with me due to the fact that he can get topline pistons. He tells me he is losing money with me buying my own pistons. He told me I must not understand how big business works. I told him I didn't realize he could get topline pistons or I would of just got them thru him.

So I wanted to talk about the price of the block and grinding the crank if it needed it. He is still upset and the phone is ringing. He says do we have to go thru this again I got phones ringing and every thing else. I told him to go ahead and get the phone I can wait.

He gives me a total price for boring the block, doing the head, grinding the crank and buying bearings and thrust bearings. A little over $400. I can live with that.

I told him now about clearances. I show him a piece of paper that I wrote down the piston to cylinder clearances, bearing clearances and the like. I asked him if he can hold those type of tolerances. He said yes but have I ever stuck a piston before. He said you understand that is 8 ten-thousands of an inch. I said no I have never stuck a pistons and would not ever like to. He said he appreciates me looking that info up but he knows what he is doing.. I told him I wanted to keep it as close to that as he can. He would probably do about a .001".

I told him I'm not trying to offend him but I just wanted to keep the tolerance towards the tight side.

He called me about a week after that and asked me how much I knew about the engine. I told him that I had just bought the car and the motor was in pretty bad shape. The previous owner had ran the car hot several times.

He said the block was warped and needed decked badly. It would cost an extra $50 to do it. I told him to go ahead since I want it to be right when I get it back. He said it should be done in a couple of days. That was about a week and a half ago. I need to call him the find out what is going on.

Got to go for now.
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econoboxer
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I am the one on the left.

Find out how much he took off the block, and, when you put it together, I want to see your pistons in the block.
I would also have the valve guides changed in your head, while he's in there- my $0.02
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ZXTjato
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bass heads

Some times these machine shops get really stinky when you ask for a specific service. In the work I do were here to make the customer happy, because 1 bad time they tell every one. And now your bad time at this shop with the guy getting snippy all of us know about it. Just how it works I guess.
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freegeo
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The guides are being replaced too. Head totally rebuilt. I called today and it is done.
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econoboxer
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I am the one on the left.

they usually charge extra for that- but the stock valve guides as they age will allow for a little wobble- obviously that is NOT a good thing- so, the key to having that head last another 100+K miles it that portion being done as well as the valve job.
If your head isn't milled too severely, and your pistons are still in the deck when you get it back- you'll be surprised at the extra HP that decked surface will give you.
Your pistons can be positive out of the hole a small amount, and you'll still be ok.

Take a dial gauge and determine how much you are either in/out of the hole.
at a zero deck- that is the pistons come to the top of the block, but do not protrude out of the block, you gain anywhere from half to 3/4 a point in compression-depending of course on the parameters of your head- if its been milled (some really like how they come alive at thirty thousandths off.) I know some people who take off more than that.

this is more than what you are asking for- but here's a brief tutorial on why all this matters.

What you encounter is the squish band.
The Squish Band or "Quench" is defined as that area between the flat of the piston and the flat of the cylinder head at top dead center (TDC). On the compression stroke, as the piston approaches TDC, the compressed mixture of fuel and air is "squished" to the remaining space of the combustion chamber where the spark plug and valves reside. The "squeezing" of the mixture creates turbulence and is expected to promote a better and more complete combustion.

Typical figures for this measurement are in the range of .040" to.045" which allows for rod stretch, carbon build-up and other variables. Our geos fall on the larger side of this.

Pure race engines with short duration applications may reduce this figure to .025" as some builders aren't happy till the pistons "kiss" the cylinder head. At .025" when you factor in high rpm rod stretch and piston "rock" at TDC you effectively reduce squish to zero.


our heads are dished-or hemispherical"squish is defined by the peripheral intersect of the spherical piston dome and the dome of the combustion chamber...There is no "flat" area of the head and piston to measure. You will want to pull out your geometry/trig to find the calculations for determining your actual/vs estimated CR

so with that in mind- the first point up in cr you will see exponential improvement- after that-you have diminishing returns.
Our motors are stock 9.5:1, so, you could be pushing 10:1, or even 10.25:1
be nice to your machinist.

The motor that is just about to be dropped in my vert has a squish band less than the gap in our spark plugs :)
Edited by econoboxer, Aug 26 2014, 08:53 PM.
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