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burned exhaust valve...AGAIN!!; 4000 miles since last burned valve
Topic Started: Aug 21 2014, 10:59 PM (2,655 Views)
snowfish
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Basic GearHead

Quote:
 
Normally the engine has a no start condition if the lifters get pumped up don't they?

Yes. ^o) But if just a couple are not quite sealing, due to the lack of full spring pressure, it will still run. Probably a little rough, but will run. Over time, the valves without full spring pressure sealing them, will prematurely burn. :bananaburn
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Deleted User
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The valves that were used is not the issue. You have something else wrong with your engine. I'm sure you've already spend several hundred dollars on a valve job. Honestly, if you're not prepared to spend a lot more, get rid of the car, and buy a Toyota. I say that because you probably have more unreported or yet undiscovered problems, like rust. All cars need to be maintained to keep them in safe driving condition. From what I've seen, 3 cylinder Geo Metros are on the top of the neglected vehicles list.

A "ring job" may get you a few thousand more miles, but seeing as you had a shop do your valve job, you're probably not highly inclined to dive into "overhauling" your engine yourself. Never mind the direct encouragement from forum members to do so. There are a lot of really good engine builders in the world. 99.9999% of them are not on this forum.

This head had 209,000 miles on it. Never a valve related problem. It's still in service to this day.

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You want a really nice set of valves, guides, and valve stem seals? DNJ. The exhaust valves are 100% non-magnetic stainless steel. $58.03 delivered to my address from Rock Auto in Houston.

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I'm going to take a bunch of bashing for posting here. Bash away, boys. I'm not trying to sell any engines. If anyone wants an engine, you know where to find me. I call them like I see 'em. I'd rather see kevinalbers spend his hard earned money on reliable transportation that he needs to go to work, the store, and other places.

A really nicely repaired Geo Metro will take $4,000 - $5,000 to get if from the typical condition of disrepair to a safe and reliable daily driver. If you don't believe me, ask Snowfish. We're all here to help. Sometimes, it's not what you would expect.
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j63812f
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J R

:gp

Awesome GG. DNJ valves are the way to go once you repair the oil burning problem on the bottom end. As far as my old head I would have used it again AND I REUSED MY HEAD BOLTS multiple times FYI so Dont let anyone try to tell you that they are not reusable and sell you overpriced new ones.Glenn can get you new ones at a fair price.

This might be helpful..

http://geometroforum.com/single/?p=918403&t=5537867

Edited by j63812f, Aug 23 2014, 03:17 PM.
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sphenicie


freegeo
Aug 22 2014, 11:59 AM
snowfish
Aug 22 2014, 11:46 AM
Stainless or not, they shouldn't burn in 4000 miles. :shake Even with a semi weak lower end. My money is on "the shop" didn't bleed the lifters. :hmm
Will the engine still run fine with lifters in that condition? Normally the engine has a no start condition if the lifters get pumped up don't they?
I cosign with the bad lifter. if that valve is riding slightly open it will burn right now.

stainless will handle the heat better, but in an "open burn" situation, even a ss valve will burn.

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Coche Blanco
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Geo Glenn
Aug 22 2014, 04:05 PM

A really nicely repaired Geo Metro will take $4,000 - $5,000 to get if from the typical condition of disrepair to a safe and reliable daily driver. If you don't believe me, ask Snowfish. We're all here to help. Sometimes, it's not what you would expect.
Holy shit. Your ROI would be decades.


Edited by Coche Blanco, Aug 22 2014, 06:21 PM.
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me2


Coche Blanco
Aug 22 2014, 06:20 PM
Geo Glenn
Aug 22 2014, 04:05 PM

A really nicely repaired Geo Metro will take $4,000 - $5,000 to get if from the typical condition of disrepair to a safe and reliable daily driver. If you don't believe me, ask Snowfish. We're all here to help. Sometimes, it's not what you would expect.
Holy shit. Your ROI would be decades.


Not if the price of gas, car insurance and the price of cars doubles again in a short time- you think it is hard to find a nice Metro now. Wait until gas doubles- AGAIN. It has doubled several times in my life time. Won't shock me to see it some more. It would shock me to find a nice Metro for sale at a reasonable price
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Cubey
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Coche Blanco
Aug 22 2014, 06:20 PM
Geo Glenn
Aug 22 2014, 04:05 PM

A really nicely repaired Geo Metro will take $4,000 - $5,000 to get if from the typical condition of disrepair to a safe and reliable daily driver. If you don't believe me, ask Snowfish. We're all here to help. Sometimes, it's not what you would expect.
Holy shit. Your ROI would be decades.


I also agreen $4,000-5000 to get a beater car up to par as a safe daily driver.

I spent about at least $7,000 in parts and labor (I lost track and I'm scared to add up the receipts!) on my motorhome and be danged if that didn't involve ANY internal engine or transmission work.

I had belts and hoses replaced for the engine and the output seal for the transmission to drive shaft replaced as well as the u-joints and the differential rebuild. Also almost a complete new front (both steering and suspension) except the coil springs and the original control arms themselves. Also almost every brake part was replaced on the entire thing except the master cylinder, booster and most of the steel brake lines. Tires and rear wheel bearing, seals lug studs, 16" steel rims to replace the outdated 16.5" ones, and so on. Also starter, alternator, starter relay, battery, battery cables ..... rear shocks also .. (I keep remembering more and more!)

But I also did RV stuff to it like almost all new plumbing, (from Poly B to PEX) new grey water holding tank, 2x 100W solar panels, "house" water pump (real water, not engine), backup alarm to warn idiots walking around that I'm backing up in case they didn't see a 19ftx7ft white thing moving toward them with it's backup lights lit up.

If I had had to also rebuild the engine and transmission, I would have been better off not buying it. As it is, I have more money in it than it's worth. And I did 90% of all the work myself!

So yeah.. $4k-5k sounds reasonable to do a lot of work on a Metro assuming you do almost all of the work... if engine and/or transmission are also involved.
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Cubey
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Oh and I assume ROI = return on investment? That's a bunch of phooey. All cars are money pits. There is never any "investing" in daily driver cars. The closest thing is us having Metros getting way better MPG than almost all other vehicles on the road, so therefore we get a "return on our investment" in these cars by better MPG. But it's still a money pit of a car. Tires wear out. Engines wear out. Cars rust in many regions, etc.

Either you:

- Buy a brand new car ($15,000 for an economy car) and it loses value rapidly but gets some free work done to it

- By a fairly late model car ($5,000-$7000 for economy or mid-range) in very good condition but still have to throw money at it for routine maintenance and seals/gaskets that might blow out and cause leaks or tires that become aged or worn out.

- By a very low priced old car (ie: a Metro) for around $1,000-1,500 and be prepared to put $1000-$1,500 into it since it might very well be ready for brakes, steering, shocks and tires all at once when you get it.. or within a few months anyway.
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Memphis metro


I have owned 5 geo metros myself. 3 of them I personally have done a in car engine refresh consisting of piston rings, rod bearings, new valves and seals, honing, new head gasket and bolts. Of these 5 geo metros, I paid less than five hundred for 3 of the cars. Some were 300 bucks. The most I have spent getting any of these cars up to dependablity is around 1000 bucks (engine parts, new suspension and brake parts and tires). Parts for these cars are cheap and it does not take a lot to get them to a dependable condition. I as well as my family have driven these cars relentlessly since the engine work was done except for one and I have driven that one a lot this summer. I very well have recieved in return my monies worth out of all of them. I say all this to say, in car engine refreshes on these metros have been good to me. I have not had any of these have oil farts like others have and they just keep going and going. I have no problem with a nice engine rebuild and spending the money on a car that is worth it but you really can achieve good service and a lot of trouble free miles with only a what we call around here ( A down and dirty overhaul ). Of course there are a lot of variables that come into play. People attempting to rebuild an engine who know nothing at all about an engine and when they are done comming back to say something is not right. Lets face it, if you know nothing about engines it really is something you should have some help with from someone who does. A geo metro is as cheap a car to purchase, repair and maintain as any car I know of. Price toyota parts and cost of engine rebuilds. Geo metros are as simple a car to work on I have ever seen. You probably will not find a forum for any other cars with as much helpful information and people as this forum anywhere. Personally I do not think that geo metros are highly neglected as opposed to any other cars. I just think they are old cars showing normal wear as any other car and they were just inexpensive cheap cars to start with. That is my two cents worth.
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snowfish
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Basic GearHead

Here's the reality. $3000 will get a little Red with Heart car.

http://geometroforum.com/topic/3709763/1/

Drove for 3 years. Sold for $1500

$4-5000 will get a near perfect Ice Blue Xfi Sport car.

http://geometroforum.com/topic/4941591/1/

Another $1500 - $2000 for professional body work and it's brand new. But that won't happen for a while, though. :shake There is no return for investment with daily driver cars. But where can you get a brand new sports car, that gets 50+mpg, for $7000 tops? That's why I build them slow. Save, build, save, build, etc.
I'm into safety, reliability, fun, mpg, and "looks pretty decent". in that order. One can spend much less, but one of the 5 will be compromised. Hopefully not the first one. :cheers
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Memphis metro


To the original poster, how did you determine the valve is burnt again? To prevent it from happening as much as you can I suggest, Make certain ignition timing is set correctly, keep the car tuned up, clean the fuel injector, keep an eye on oil burning and oil usage, replace the pcv valve, address and repair any check engine codes.
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kevinalbers
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WOW!!! Thanks for all the conversation about my burned valve issue. I do not know if the repair shop used stainless steel valves. The pcv was replaced at the same time as the valve work. I had another shop do a compression check just 2 weeks ago and they determined that #3 was at 30psi due to the exhaust valve. They figured 1,200-1,500 dollars to do the job again. The other 2 cylinders were at 100 and 105. This car is just a summer time fun car. It is in VERY nice original condition. I do not drive it in winter. There are no engine codes at all. I keep it tuned and just had the entire exhaust replaced except for the catalytic convertor. The exhaust shop downplayed the possibility of a plugged convertor when I brought it up. At this point I'm actually considering installing a rebuilt engine from an auto parts supplier.
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Memphis metro


Did you have a written warranty on the work you had done? Any chance of them making good on it?

It really depends on just how much you want to spend. If you could get it to Johnny Mullets place, he could probably work you out a sweet deal and save you some money. If you decide to go with a rebuilt engine from someone, be sure to get a written warranty on it and understand the terms thereof.

Here is Johnnys thread,

http://geometroforum.com/topic/3701658/42/#new
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kevinalbers
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I'd love to. Where is it?
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kevinalbers
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Unfortunately the repair shop that did the work has gone out of business. Not surprising I guess.
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