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California Metros to increase in value
Topic Started: Aug 28 2014, 12:36 PM (3,285 Views)
Cubey
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Here is a chart of fuel taxes for those interested: http://www.gasbuddy.com/tax_info.aspx

People rag on CA but several states in the East have HIGHER gas taxes than CA. CA is larger so it gets more attention.

WA is almost as high on fuel taxes too, yet fuel costs quite a bit less than CA. In fact, diesel tax is MUCH higher in WA than CA.... but diesel itself per gallon is not much more expensive than regular unleaded. I have actually seen it at the same price as regular unleaded here in Seattle.
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aaronvincent
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Mr Mojo Risin'

Was going to type some snarky comment but realized I could give a :shit

Goodnight everyone :lol
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nwgeo


I think it is extremely funny that Seattle thinks they are so green yet they use more of the power from the 2000 MWs coal strip in MT than any other area in the northwest. oowee :rofl
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Cubey
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Blame that on MT for burning coal, not for WA using the power from it.

WA has the Grand Coulee Dam putting out 6,809 MW (21 billion KWh per year!) which is over 3x that of the coal plant you mentioned.. and without causing pollution.
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Woodie
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evmetro
Aug 28 2014, 02:06 PM
I have been preparing for high gas prices for awhile now. If a guy was smart, he would look for a business that would do better as gas prices go up...
You were the first thought that ran through my empty head when I read the original post.
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Woodie
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Cubey
Aug 28 2014, 03:40 PM
"Estimates of the cost of the tax vary. The California Air Resources Board, the Golden State's premier anti-pollution agency, predicts the new tax will raise gasoline prices from 20 cents to $1.30 per gallon. A prominent state senator who helped author the bill estimated the cost at 40 cents a gallon.
Herein lies the problem.

These idiots just pass these sweeping laws with no idea what the impact is going to be. That paragraph is ludicrous.


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Cubey
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Woodie
Aug 29 2014, 06:37 AM
Cubey
Aug 28 2014, 03:40 PM
"Estimates of the cost of the tax vary. The California Air Resources Board, the Golden State's premier anti-pollution agency, predicts the new tax will raise gasoline prices from 20 cents to $1.30 per gallon. A prominent state senator who helped author the bill estimated the cost at 40 cents a gallon.
Herein lies the problem.

These idiots just pass these sweeping laws with no idea what the impact is going to be. That paragraph is ludicrous.


Boohoo... something that will help air quality is going to cost money so let's not even try.
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perfesser
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Elite Member - Former Metro owner

Cubey
Aug 29 2014, 12:22 AM
Once you put up solar panels, there is very little maintenance and there is no cost for the "fuel". No drilling or mining is required either, saving substantial amounts of money to invest in more solar power.


And just where do you think the raw materials and rare earth minerals come from to build solar panels? Also, if you cared to look just a wee bit deeper than the Friends of the Earth press releases, you would find out things about the solar cell manufacturing process that would scare you silly!! Green? You mean the color of the poisonous sludge it produces as a waste product??

Cubey
Aug 29 2014, 10:37 AM
Woodie
Aug 29 2014, 06:37 AM
Cubey
Aug 28 2014, 03:40 PM
"Estimates of the cost of the tax vary. The California Air Resources Board, the Golden State's premier anti-pollution agency, predicts the new tax will raise gasoline prices from 20 cents to $1.30 per gallon. A prominent state senator who helped author the bill estimated the cost at 40 cents a gallon.
Herein lies the problem.

These idiots just pass these sweeping laws with no idea what the impact is going to be. That paragraph is ludicrous.


Boohoo... something that will help air quality is going to cost money so let's not even try.


You obviously have no memory of the air quality of the Northwest in the '60s and '70s. From Blaine to Olympia, even with your eyes closed, you could tell within about 10 miles exactly where you were from the smell of each town. Bellingham had a distinct odor, as did Mt. Vernon, but Everett was the worst offender of all. It was so bad that, if the wind was blowing across I-5, you'd mash that throttle and go through the cloud as fast as you could, and the police wouldn't stop you because they didn't want to get out of their cars in the middle of it. Between all the pulp mills (and the arsenic coming out of Tacoma's copper plant), it was quite a place, but everywhere in the country was about the same.

The air pollution now from automobiles is less than 1% of what it was back then. Cars produce 20% of GHG emissions, yet the auto industry is the only segment of industry committed to a numerical goal of emission reduction.

Your statement about cost neglects the fact that getting fewer emissions is going to cost more and more for less and less results. At some point the funding source (us) is going to dry up completely and we'll all have to use horses and buggies. If you've ever lived in Amish country, you know that they have their own emissions problem!
Edited by perfesser, Aug 29 2014, 11:40 AM.
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Cubey
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You've gone into nonsensical crazy talk mode. I'm done.
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91 ragtop
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Good!!!!


Ken...........
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Freeman
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The Family Man

Technology has come a long way in the past century. The bad news is that this technology hasn't been entirely implemented. A lot of 'old' and 'outdated' technology is still used around the world.

Green? Pollution? I'm sure there is a line to be drawn and a happy median. I'm happy with where we are at now though.
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Rondawg
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Cubey
Aug 29 2014, 12:54 AM
Here is a chart of fuel taxes for those interested: http://www.gasbuddy.com/tax_info.aspx

People rag on CA but several states in the East have HIGHER gas taxes than CA. CA is larger so it gets more attention.

WA is almost as high on fuel taxes too, yet fuel costs quite a bit less than CA. In fact, diesel tax is MUCH higher in WA than CA.... but diesel itself per gallon is not much more expensive than regular unleaded. I have actually seen it at the same price as regular unleaded here in Seattle.
I wonder why California's retail gas is always way higher than the National Average? Price in NC (per Gas Buddy) in Charlotte NC is $3.30....L.A. is $3.80. NC state tax is 57.6 cents vs California 69 cents. 12 cents difference in State tax with a 50 cent difference in retail price? Plus Cali has 17 refineries and NC has ZERO. (maybe they calculate prices out there based in Pesos??)
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Cubey
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Rondawg
Aug 29 2014, 01:41 PM
Cubey
Aug 29 2014, 12:54 AM
Here is a chart of fuel taxes for those interested: http://www.gasbuddy.com/tax_info.aspx

People rag on CA but several states in the East have HIGHER gas taxes than CA. CA is larger so it gets more attention.

WA is almost as high on fuel taxes too, yet fuel costs quite a bit less than CA. In fact, diesel tax is MUCH higher in WA than CA.... but diesel itself per gallon is not much more expensive than regular unleaded. I have actually seen it at the same price as regular unleaded here in Seattle.
I wonder why California's retail gas is always way higher than the National Average? Price in NC (per Gas Buddy) in Charlotte NC is $3.30....L.A. is $3.80. NC state tax is 57.6 cents vs California 69 cents. 12 cents difference in State tax with a 50 cent difference in retail price? Plus Cali has 17 refineries and NC has ZERO. (maybe they calculate prices out there based in Pesos??)
The way stations (roughly) work is like this:

Someone runs a the franchise station (as opposed to actually OWNING it, 99% of the time) and has to pay the company so much per gallon for the fuel. Then they add around 5-10 cents mark up per gallon.

Let's say you open a gas station. You are required to pay what the fuel company is asking for the fuel. You don't get any say in that. So if the company wants to charge, say 20 cents more, to you because you're in CA and sell a lot more fuel (bigger profits for them) than someone in NC then they CAN. You have no control over the price you have to pay for the fuel as the "owner"/operator of said gas station and add your mark up on top of that. They can get away with it because as the gas station owner, you can't do anything about it.

Some stations actually only make a few PENNIES profit per gallon to try to compete with lesser brands.

Let's say you run a Shell station and there is a 7-11 across the street. Now suppose you pay $3.92 per gallon from the supplier and you add 10 cents for profit, that brings you gas price up to $4.02. If the station across the street of another brand is paying $3.89 per gallon for THEIR gas, they can mark it up 10 cents bringing it to $3.99/gal. Meanwhile, you can only mark it up by 6 cents to be BELOW their price, or 7 cents if you want to match their price. So lets say you MATCH their price of $3.99. They have the wiggle room to drop theirs to $3.97 (8 cents profit) which puts you in a worse pickle since you would have to drop YOUR price to $3.96 (4 cents profit) to beat their price, or $3.97 (5 cents profit) to match their price.

That's why you can find the same brand of gas in the same city with as much as 10-12 cents difference in price. It has to do with how the company is charging that specific station. No gas station operator in their right mind is going to put such a huge mark-up on their fuel that they drive customers away in favor of a station a few miles away charging 15 cents a gallon less of the same brand of fuel. In very small towns that MIGHT the case but it's unlikely. It's more likely that their fuel supplier is charging more to the operator.

Take a look: https://www.google.com/search?q=gas+station+owners+profit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
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Rondawg
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Cubey......what you just described is basic supply side economics. That still don't explain WHY gas prices in Cali are higher especially when there are so many refineries nearby.
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Cubey
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Because they can (the oil companies, not the gas stations), that's why. It's a large state in both population and land mass. Most of the state is too far from bordering states to allow residents to drive to a nearby state to get cheaper gas. It's also a state with a large amount of wealth.

Have you not noticed that the richer the state is, the higher the gas prices are? It's no coincidence. It has less to do with the state's gas taxes but rather more to do with how the oil companies are pricing the gas they sell to the stations.

Case in point about state taxes having little to do with gas prices. Let's go by THIS list instead which shows HIGHER gas tax prices than GasBuddy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States

I picked 4 different states and 2-3 cities in each state: (NOTE: these gas prices were current as of this post! they may be different when you search!)

TX gas tax: 38.4 c/g
AR gas tax: 40.2 c/g
WA gas tax: 55.9 c/g
CA gas tax: 71.3 c/g

Tacoma, WA - Cheapest: $3.55 (perhaps the cheapest gas in WA)
Seattle, WA - Cheapest: $3.71
Ellensburg, WA - $3.89 (small city in SE WA)

Texarkana, AR - $3.13 (station physically in AR)
Little Rock, AR - $3.09

Texarkana, TX - $3.13 (station physically in TX)
Houston, TX - $3.09 (3.06 at Sam's club but I'm disregarding club prices)

Fresno, CA - $3.49
Sacramento, CA - $3.49
San Francisco, CA - $3.59

Yes, CA with 15.4 c/g HIGHER gas tax than WA has gas CHEAPER or EQUAL to the Seattle/Tacoma area.

So what we have here is:

TX: 38.4 c/g (gas $3.09+)
AR: 40.2 c/g (gas $3.09+) 1.8 cents more tax but equal gas prices
CA: 71.3 c/g (gas $3.49+) 30 cents more tax but 40 cents more per gallon, compared to AR/TX (sure, cost of living is higher in general, I'll give you that)
WA: 55.9 c/g (gas $3.55+) 15.4 cents LESS TAX than CA yet gas starts at 6 cents HIGHER than CA!

WA stands out in this example since it has lower gas tax than CA, yet has higher gas prices. You can't say lower demand than CA... the Seattle metro area is about 3.5 million people which is more about 1mil more than the Sacramento. It has higher fuel demand than Sacramento, lower gas taxes yet costs more than Sacramento.
Edited by Cubey, Aug 29 2014, 05:08 PM.
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