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California Metros to increase in value
Topic Started: Aug 28 2014, 12:36 PM (3,284 Views)
Rondawg
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Interesting..... I would bet another factor is the cost for oil companies to refine the oil in individual states. Hidden costs such as business taxes, state laws/regulations to do business within their state, specific blends of gas due to AL Gore worshiping climate change preaching tree huggers (which Cali has lots of). I would guess it costs an Oil company less to produce gas on the Gulf Coast and ship it to NC than it does to produce it in a Cali refinery and ship it cross town!
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Cubey
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What puzzles me most of the climate change debate is... what if, for the sake of argument, the deniers are WRONG? Why would you want to play with the fate of mankind as a species by burying your head in the sand? Frankly... there is ZERO BAD in going "green" in terms of outcome long term.. unless you have big money in oil, coal or nuclear power. But for 99% of the population that doesn't apply.

The "conspiracy" crap doesn't even make any sense. The idea spewed is that it's a "scam" to make money for green energy companies.

First of all: It's not a scam. They actually produce goods and energy from the goods they produce. It also creates jobs to install and maintain the infrastructure.

Second of all: SO WHAT IF THEY MAKE MONEY???

It's not like the oil, coal and nuclear aren't making a crapload of money! Isn't our economy *supposed* to be FREE ENTERPRISE where if something people prefer comes along, the public is allowed to pick what they want?

Hint: The US is not true free enterprise.

Big oil gets billions in subsidies... and they get off with a slap on the wrist for causing major pollution disasters. And we're blowing up the Middle East for oil and have been since 2001... so they are getting trillions in Pentagon subsidies to get access to oil.

Crooked enterprise is obvious in Southern states where the politicians are in the pockets of big coal. They are passing laws that allow the utility companies to CHARGE PEOPLE a monthly fee who install solar panels rather than PAYING THE PEOPLE for the excess energy they produce, like what's done in Europe and in smart (liberal leaning) US states. That's like growing tomatoes in your garden.. and being forced to pay Monsanto $2/lb for your own tomatoes. It's asinine.

Anytime you hear about how green is bad, green is a scam, green is a waste of time.. you're listening to big oil/coal talking because they are shitting their pants at the fact that solar and wind is better. They wouldn't be spending the billions of dollars they are trying to kill green energy if it was truly inferior to oil, coal, etc. They would sit back and let it train wreck itself if it was truly a lost cause. However, that's NOT what they are doing.
Edited by Cubey, Aug 29 2014, 10:39 PM.
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Woodie
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Cubey
Aug 29 2014, 10:37 AM
Woodie
Aug 29 2014, 06:37 AM
Cubey
Aug 28 2014, 03:40 PM
"Estimates of the cost of the tax vary. The California Air Resources Board, the Golden State's premier anti-pollution agency, predicts the new tax will raise gasoline prices from 20 cents to $1.30 per gallon. A prominent state senator who helped author the bill estimated the cost at 40 cents a gallon.
Herein lies the problem.

These idiots just pass these sweeping laws with no idea what the impact is going to be. That paragraph is ludicrous.
Boohoo... something that will help air quality is going to cost money so let's not even try.
Way to miss the point

20ยข would be annoying but reasonable, and if used wisely (0% chance of that) could even be a step in the right direction.

$1.20 would be crushing, stop the economy right in it's tracks, cost people their jobs and businesses, and be devastating in general.

This is the same kind of thinking that was used for Obamacare. That cryptkeeper Nancy Pelosi was dumb enough to say it out loud, "we have to pass it to find out what's in it". Now we've found out, it's an f-ing disaster.



Edited by Woodie, Aug 30 2014, 06:25 AM.
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myredvert
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myredvert

Quote:
 
Boohoo... something that will help air quality is going to cost money so let's not even try.
For pete's sake cubey, someone simply posted an article about a gas tax increase in a state you don't even live in. They didn't scream, they didn't cry, they just shared it with us. Please stop making fun of people who may be hurting over high gas prices and taxes and already drives a 20+ year old car to do what they can to save on gas.

I mean, who doesn't feel empathy for someone else who is facing a tax increase on something they mayrely on to get to a job and can't just "cut it out" of their family budget?

By any chance have you volunteered to take on that extra tax burden yourself (whatever it may turn out to be!) for a family in CA that has to commute long distances to work in a car and is barely making ends meet as it is? Think of how good that would make you feel knowing that you are helping to improve air quality above and beyond what you already are doing in the way of your taxes.
:thumb

Edited by myredvert, Aug 30 2014, 07:12 AM.
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Cobrajet25
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Cubey
Aug 29 2014, 10:24 PM
What puzzles me most of the climate change debate is... what if, for the sake of argument, the deniers are WRONG? Why would you want to play with the fate of mankind as a species by burying your head in the sand? Frankly... there is ZERO BAD in going "green" in terms of outcome long term.. unless you have big money in oil, coal or nuclear power. But for 99% of the population that doesn't apply.

The "conspiracy" crap doesn't even make any sense. The idea spewed is that it's a "scam" to make money for green energy companies.

First of all: It's not a scam. They actually produce goods and energy from the goods they produce. It also creates jobs to install and maintain the infrastructure.

Second of all: SO WHAT IF THEY MAKE MONEY???

It's not like the oil, coal and nuclear aren't making a crapload of money! Isn't our economy *supposed* to be FREE ENTERPRISE where if something people prefer comes along, the public is allowed to pick what they want?

Hint: The US is not true free enterprise.

Big oil gets billions in subsidies... and they get off with a slap on the wrist for causing major pollution disasters. And we're blowing up the Middle East for oil and have been since 2001... so they are getting trillions in Pentagon subsidies to get access to oil.

Crooked enterprise is obvious in Southern states where the politicians are in the pockets of big coal. They are passing laws that allow the utility companies to CHARGE PEOPLE a monthly fee who install solar panels rather than PAYING THE PEOPLE for the excess energy they produce, like what's done in Europe and in smart (liberal leaning) US states. That's like growing tomatoes in your garden.. and being forced to pay Monsanto $2/lb for your own tomatoes. It's asinine.

Anytime you hear about how green is bad, green is a scam, green is a waste of time.. you're listening to big oil/coal talking because they are shitting their pants at the fact that solar and wind is better. They wouldn't be spending the billions of dollars they are trying to kill green energy if it was truly inferior to oil, coal, etc. They would sit back and let it train wreck itself if it was truly a lost cause. However, that's NOT what they are doing.
No wonder they punted you out of Texas. But you will fit nicely in Seattle. :thumb

Seattle is full of people spouting snarky, sanctimonious, cliched, conspiracy-theorizing, condescending, anti-capitalist, sophomoric pinko bullshit.

The "deniers" are not the ones having to try to explain an 18-year stretch where their theory has completely fallen apart, and your "what if..." line of reasoning is nothing more than the last desperate line of defense for the green charlatans. Wind and solar are not utopia, so there is definitely not "zero bad" in going green...because green, so far, ain't shit. A person has to be astonishingly arrogant and myopic to even believe this. The wind isn't always blowing, the sun isn't always shining, and solar panel technology hasn't progressed much since the 1950s when they were invented. I like dams, you like dams, but greenies hate them. Try building another one...anywhere. You'll never get the permits. Greenies tear dams DOWN.

The thing I dislike most about Progs is their persistent belief that all we need to do to make embryonic (or stillborn) hippie fantasy energy viable is throw government money at it while taxing existing energy sources at rates high enough to piss everyone off. Technology doesn't advance on the arbitrary timetable of progressive government bureaucrats and activists. Sure, these technologies can be viable on the micro level...if you are willing to make a lifestyle out of it. Johann can power his 300 square foot "flat" in Amsterdam with solar panels because all he has is a hot plate, a laptop, two light bulbs, and an alarm clock. But powering the Sears Tower? Or Disneyland? Fuggeddaboudit...

We will use fossil fuels until we run out of them. Period. Crippling our economy in an idiotic attempt to make that happen slower is going to cause more problems than it solves.

As to California? Well, they just elected Governor Moonbeam, so they deserve what they voted for. Anyone who goes into the election booth, pulls the lever for Democrats, and expects anything OTHER than higher taxes is a certifiable moron. Raising taxes is all Democrats know how to do to solve any problem. Keep electing them, it'll keep happening.
Edited by Cobrajet25, Aug 30 2014, 08:29 AM.
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Rondawg
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Well said Cobra! A few years back it was Global Warming, now it's Climate Change. It's so much easier to blame ANY extreme weather event on Climate Change. The fact is Climate changes....the southwest was a vast desert not too long ago. There were once glaciers covering most of North America, rhea melted! I guess those cavemen must have burned a lot of carbon?

Going green is great, I would love to live off the grid. Drive a car that charges up on solar power. Maybe someday as technology advances. As of right now the air is cleaner than it was just a few decades ago. As are the rivers....friggin lake Erie was a cesspool back in the 60's! I am convinced that this whole Climate Change crap is all about social engineering! Carbon footprint lol give me a break please!
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91 ragtop
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You tell him Cobrajet25. That's my feelings too.


Ken............
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Old Man


91 ragtop
Aug 30 2014, 08:13 AM
You tell him Cobrajet25. That's my feelings too.


Ken............
Don't do any good to tell anyone the straight truth when they think they know it all.
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t3ragtop
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker

who is john galt?
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Cubey
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Rondawg
Aug 30 2014, 08:08 AM
Well said Cobra! A few years back it was Global Warming, now it's Climate Change. It's so much easier to blame ANY extreme weather event on Climate Change.
Those are the same things. The term got changed to help please the right wing. :lol

Rondawg
Aug 30 2014, 08:08 AM
As of right now the air is cleaner than it was just a few decades ago.
Yes, it is Aren't you GLAD the oil companies, coal and the right wing in general screaming about how the EPA is stupid didn't get their way? (Oddly enough, Nixon started the EPA because of the out of control pollution. It was not just about car emissions.. that was is a tiny fraction of what the EPA does. It mostly deals in toxic waste cleanup from criminal companies who dump it into waterways and onto the ground.

I didn't get "booted out" of Texas. I left the shithole because I was sick of it. It's going back to the 19th century: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/19/texas-begins-replacing-paved-roads-with-gravel-due-to-lack-of-funding/

Edited by Cubey, Aug 30 2014, 12:21 PM.
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ONEHARDHEAD
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Cobrajet, I believe I would vote for you.
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Rondawg
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Cubey
Aug 30 2014, 12:14 PM
Rondawg
Aug 30 2014, 08:08 AM
Well said Cobra! A few years back it was Global Warming, now it's Climate Change. It's so much easier to blame ANY extreme weather event on Climate Change.
Those are the same things. The term got changed to help please the right wing. :lol

Rondawg
Aug 30 2014, 08:08 AM
As of right now the air is cleaner than it was just a few decades ago.
Yes, it is Aren't you GLAD the oil companies, coal and the right wing in general screaming about how the EPA is stupid didn't get their way? (Oddly enough, Nixon started the EPA because of the out of control pollution. It was not just about car emissions.. that was is a tiny fraction of what the EPA does. It mostly deals in toxic waste cleanup from criminal companies who dump it into waterways and onto the ground.

I didn't get "booted out" of Texas. I left the shithole because I was sick of it. It's going back to the 19th century: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/19/texas-begins-replacing-paved-roads-with-gravel-due-to-lack-of-funding/

Yes I am glad the EPA was founded. But like so many other government programs that started out with nobel intentions and has morphed into a monster.
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Cubey
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Cobrajet25
Aug 30 2014, 07:19 AM
We will use fossil fuels until we run out of them. Period. Crippling our economy in an idiotic attempt to make that happen slower is going to cause more problems than it solves.
Here's a question for you: What happens then?

Let's say we forget green energy and continue to rely almost entirely on fossil fuels instead of having as MUCH green power as possible.

Then day the enviable happens: they run out of oil. What then?

The world falls to it's knees... economies and lives are destroyed and the world falls into anarchy. Far fetched you might say?

No more gasoline cars. No more airplanes. No more new plastic (although we probably have enough to recycle for the next 10,000 years)

At least trains run on diesel so biodiesel would be possible without much need for modification. However, if you start using FOOD for fuel, there's going to be MASS famines. Which is another factor... unless farm equipment is diesel, they'd have to convert to it or have no way to run it.

If there was no more gasoline and no way to get around except the very, very, VERY few true EVs (or walking, bicycle), do you not think it would basically be the end of society as we know it? Not only for USA but for the world.

Fossil fuels are finite. We are going to run out. The question is when. Global warming/climate change (again, the same thing) is just another aspect of why we need green energy.

It's going to be too late when the last drop of gasoline is used. We won't have the infrastructure in place to cope with the problem.

But fine... live with your head buried in the sand. We may not run out of oil before those of us on the forum will die .. so we'll just kick the can down the road for the next several generations. Eventually you're going to run out road to kick the can down, you'll be at the cliff. You have no choice to jump off of it, since there will be no going back to fossil fuels. They'll be gone forever. It'll be the worst case of "told you so" ever.
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Cubey
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Rondawg
Aug 30 2014, 12:40 PM
Cubey
Aug 30 2014, 12:14 PM
Rondawg
Aug 30 2014, 08:08 AM
Well said Cobra! A few years back it was Global Warming, now it's Climate Change. It's so much easier to blame ANY extreme weather event on Climate Change.
Those are the same things. The term got changed to help please the right wing. :lol

Rondawg
Aug 30 2014, 08:08 AM
As of right now the air is cleaner than it was just a few decades ago.
Yes, it is Aren't you GLAD the oil companies, coal and the right wing in general screaming about how the EPA is stupid didn't get their way? (Oddly enough, Nixon started the EPA because of the out of control pollution. It was not just about car emissions.. that was is a tiny fraction of what the EPA does. It mostly deals in toxic waste cleanup from criminal companies who dump it into waterways and onto the ground.

I didn't get "booted out" of Texas. I left the shithole because I was sick of it. It's going back to the 19th century: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/19/texas-begins-replacing-paved-roads-with-gravel-due-to-lack-of-funding/

Yes I am glad the EPA was founded. But like so many other government programs that started out with nobel intentions and has morphed into a monster.
A monster in what sense?

It is doing exactly what it was designed for. Reducing pollution. You seem to be angry that it CONTINUES to try to reduce pollution further beyond the HUGE visible smog cloud that used to hang so heavily over cities like LA and NYC. I'm sure some still exists but it's a fraction of what it used to be.

Most of the EPAs activities go unnoticed. They are actively cleaning up toxic waste sites throughout the country. They are called "superfund" sites: http://www.epa.gov/superfund/sites/

The spectrum ranges from auto wrecking yards where they broke the law and just dumped motor oil for to ground for many years... all the way to nuclear cleanup... and everything in between.

Oddly enough, a lot of superfund sites were contaminated pre-EPA days. In other words, before the EPA existed to order companies around not to pollute, they did what they wanted. Since the EPA was created, now there is regulation and for the most part companies do the right thing. Oil companies are always the worst polluters from skimping on small low cost things. The Gulf of Mexico still hasn't recovered from the illegal setup that BP had. BP has caused several more major water-oil pollution disasters since then. Without the EPA, it would be "oh well".
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happydriver
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Sedan Love

How about everyone ignore all of cubeys posts and no one reply to him. That way we fix the problem ourselves. :rocker Mythstae will come browsing to break up the mess created soon.
Edited by happydriver, Aug 30 2014, 12:58 PM.
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