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Few questions on a 97 Metro
Topic Started: Sep 1 2014, 11:38 AM (675 Views)
rowdy235
New Member
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Hi all,

been lurking around here for quite some time, but never posted. I have a 97 geo metro lsi with a 1.3 and automatic I've had for about 2 years now. Its high miles with about 215,000 on it right now. I believe everything is factory, I bought it from the second owner with about 190,000 on it who had owned it about 5 years. Haven't had too many issues with it thankfully but I am trying to knock out some maintenance items before winter comes. Just yesterday I finally found the right idler pulley and got my a/c working.

The car leaks oil fairly bad. I'd say a quart every 500 miles. I can tell its leaking from the oil pan which I plan to re-seal. Also I believe some is leaking from the valve cover seal which should be an easy fix. I have oil on the top of my transmission but I don't see any below the distributor making me wonder if that seal is really bad? May do it anyway. In addition I believe the RMS and FMS are leaking, but I probably won't bother replacing those. For the cost of my time to tear it down that far, I could buy a lot of quarts of oil.

One issue thats not really an issue is I believe my radiator cap is bad. When you take it off, there is never any pressure. Also, if you fill the radiator next time you check it its always about an inch down, which says to me the cap is shot. I'm a little leary of throwing a new cap at it, for fear it will cause all sorts of leaks to show up. At a minimum I will redo the hoses as they look like they are on their last leg. Its never once ran hot even in 100 degree heat going up hills. Any thoughts?

Last few things, I don't think I will be servicing the transmission. At this high of mileage, I've heard stories about it actually causing harm. It shifts good and I go easy on it, so I think I will just let it be. Fluid is dark but does not smell burnt.

Also the timing belt. Seeing as this car is a non-interference or so I am told, I don't see a reason to change it out. If it breaks it would be nice to change it and maybe the front main seal while I am in there but is it worth changing out even though its working fine? No maintenance records from the previous owner but peeking at the belt it looks newer.

Just throwing it out there to see if anybody has any advice or tips. :hmm
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Hanuman
"The Almighty Grounds Cleaner"

rowdy235
Sep 1 2014, 11:38 AM
Hi all,

been lurking around here for quite some time, but never posted. I have a 97 geo metro lsi with a 1.3 and automatic I've had for about 2 years now. Its high miles with about 215,000 on it right now. I believe everything is factory, I bought it from the second owner with about 190,000 on it who had owned it about 5 years. Haven't had too many issues with it thankfully but I am trying to knock out some maintenance items before winter comes. Just yesterday I finally found the right idler pulley and got my a/c working.

The car leaks oil fairly bad. I'd say a quart every 500 miles. I can tell its leaking from the oil pan which I plan to re-seal. Also I believe some is leaking from the valve cover seal which should be an easy fix. I have oil on the top of my transmission but I don't see any below the distributor making me wonder if that seal is really bad? May do it anyway. In addition I believe the RMS and FMS are leaking, but I probably won't bother replacing those. For the cost of my time to tear it down that far, I could buy a lot of quarts of oil.

One issue thats not really an issue is I believe my radiator cap is bad. When you take it off, there is never any pressure. Also, if you fill the radiator next time you check it its always about an inch down, which says to me the cap is shot. I'm a little leary of throwing a new cap at it, for fear it will cause all sorts of leaks to show up. At a minimum I will redo the hoses as they look like they are on their last leg. Its never once ran hot even in 100 degree heat going up hills. Any thoughts?

Last few things, I don't think I will be servicing the transmission. At this high of mileage, I've heard stories about it actually causing harm. It shifts good and I go easy on it, so I think I will just let it be. Fluid is dark but does not smell burnt.

Also the timing belt. Seeing as this car is a non-interference or so I am told, I don't see a reason to change it out. If it breaks it would be nice to change it and maybe the front main seal while I am in there but is it worth changing out even though its working fine? No maintenance records from the previous owner but peeking at the belt it looks newer.

Just throwing it out there to see if anybody has any advice or tips. :hmm
the oil leak from your oil pan probably isnt from your oil pan, maybe the crank seal is blown out, or more likely... the camshaft seal.
cam seal blows out due to clogged pcv passages through air cleaner housing, hose, and clogged pcv. oil has a neat hidden channel it runs down that ends up running down the oil pan.

no nead to replace the 3$ cam seal (same seal as crank shaft) 9/10 times the seal is fine, just push it back in place.

while your there, pull the distributor, and replace the 1 or 2 gaskets there, also common oil leak spots that can run all the way down to the oil pan. you can make the gaskets from black rtv gasket maker.

inspect the valve cover gasket, if its intact, its probably good. cheap.

this will probably take care of you oil leaks....for 15$ and a hour of your time.

dont forget to CLEAN OUT THE PCV HOSE AND PASSAGE THROUGH THE AIR CLEANER HOUSING< AND REPLACE OR CLEAN THE PCV!!!

and while your there....clean your intake ground. nothing is better than a happy computer!
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

Got a whole bunch of "well, there is this maintenance thing I could do, but I don't think I will" going on here.

As stated previously, the leak is not likely the oil pan, unless it's been run into something or it was leaking from a previous repair. More likely is the cam and crank seals, which can puke a lot of oil in a short period of time. If they are leaking then the timing belt is oil contaminated and should be replaced. I will drive until mine breaks, but if replacing the seals and it's oil contaminated, might as well replace it while there. Since the cam and crank seals cost almost nothing, it makes sense to replace them if leaking. Do clean and inspect the PCV valve and hose.

The distributor has an internal o-ring seal that fails. When it does the oil drips from right under the cap directly to the transmission. Remove the cap and check for oil at the bottom the the distributor housing inside. If there is oil, that is what has failed. It's not easy to replace, many send theirs to Fainya to have them rebuilt but the how to is on the site.

Replace the cap. If the hoses are bad, replace them as well. Your cooling system is not working properly if the system is not pressurizing. It only takes a few minutes to do damage if you fail to notice a temperature spike. If Something was going to fail because the coolant system was pressurized, it's a time bomb anyway. Wouldn't you rather it work properly? The other possibility is that it isn't the cap and your headgasket is blown. But it runs fine you say, doesn't mean it's not blown. Replace the cap and see if the symptoms go away.

So someone who had an old worn out transmission replaced the fluid and soon after that it failed. Is that evidence that removing all the contaminates out of the transmission and replacing the fluid that has been subjected to heat cycles and various forces that tend to break it down and replacing it with fresh, clean fluid caused the failure? It's entirely up to you to decide, it's your car.
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rowdy235
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Good food for thought guys, thanks for the responses

Oil Leaks- I didn't realize about the oil being channeled to down below but now that I look at it it makes sense. When i first bought the car, the PCV hose was almost completely clogged. I replaced it, and I will double check it still good, but it sounds to me like that could have easily forced one (or both?) of those seals out. Can you push either back into place without timing belt removal? If not it doesn't make any sense to me to replace the seals and not the timing belt so that will get added to the list. I will check inside the distributor cap for any signs of oil, didn't remember seeing any last time I was in there. I'm guessing a reman'd distributor would already have the new seal installed? (I have one still in the box from the previous owner)

Cooling System- Since I've driven the car close to 30k for two years I doubt the headgasket is bad. On those same principles, I also doubt that there are any major issues, so I'll go ahead with the new cap and hoses. Maybe a thermostat since I'm in there? Water pump? Barring a headgasket the worst leak I could think of finding would be radiator or heater core.

Transmission- you bring up some good points. I had a ford van years ago that was doing fine until I changed the fluid, that is what has always spooked me about messing with things. Of course an E4OD was not the best transmission in the world and it was probably going to fail eventually, so I can't say the fluid change killed it. I'm leaning towards changing it out. Can't be any better for the transmission to have that old gunk in there than nice new fluid, IMO.

So far I have a whopping list of stuff to do, hopefully I can get it all done in a weekend. :thumb



Edited by rowdy235, Sep 2 2014, 10:06 AM.
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Mythstae
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rowdy235
Sep 2 2014, 10:03 AM
I'm leaning towards changing it out. Can't be any better for the transmission to have that old gunk in there than nice new fluid, IMO.
Don't forget to change the transmission fluid filter.
(I feel really weird saying that; I've never serviced an automatic trans before :lol )
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Mythstae
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Mythstae
Sep 2 2014, 10:16 AM
rowdy235
Sep 2 2014, 10:03 AM
I'm leaning towards changing it out. Can't be any better for the transmission to have that old gunk in there than nice new fluid, IMO.
Don't forget to change the transmission fluid filter.
Aha! Knew I had seen some relevant pictures...
From econboxxxer's thread about "Meatloaf"...
http://geometroforum.com/single/?p=663993&t=4723202
econboxxxer
Jul 1 2012, 12:39 AM
Serviced the transmission today. New trans filter and Dex/merc fluid- since that is what replaced Dextron II.
Drove the car 300 miles today. Its getting ready for an oil change.
Running the A/C, and driving normal around town combined city/highway mileage was 36.2 miles per gallon. The highway miles varied from 55 to 75 mph- with more on the 60-65 range.
It was a good time to service the transmission.
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The fluid was in good condition when it was drained, and there were no off smells. Servicing a trans at home is much more cost effective than taking it in to the shop to have it done.

Have a log book of repairs that will go with the car to whomever buys it. The brakes appear to be in good working order- the cv axles are good, and the shocks are in decent condition. The ride is fairly quiet inside- quieter than any of the Metros I have owned.
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rowdy235
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Wow looks like it can be a lot worse than it looks from up top. I'll order a filter too, then.
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Mythstae
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:thumb

What part of Oregon are you from, by the way?
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rowdy235
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Salem area, I was previously from Sweet Home, south about an hour outside of Albany

Well sure enough the bottom of the distributor has oil on it. This weekend I will pull the cap to see if its coming from inside or outside and I may go ahead and throw in the remanufactured distributor I have.
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