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| How does I Subwoofer?; Kicking and screaming... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 4 2014, 07:14 PM (3,820 Views) | |
| Mythstae | Nov 4 2014, 08:31 PM Post #16 |
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| arudlang | Nov 5 2014, 02:11 AM Post #17 |
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Andrew
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First time sub installations can be tough. Here's my two cents: 1) Is their existing sub a used sub? Is it a heavily used sub? Even if you get an identical one old and new do not always match well. Thats a bit nick-pickish but just sayin. 2) Wiring - Easiest thing is to just buy a sub wiring kit for $30-$45. It will come with stuff to help hook up to the battery (sometimes). It will have a nice fuse holder and high amperage fuse all set for you. It will have a length of wire for the amp remote turn-on and usually also long RCA cables. You can't get these things individually for less than the price of the kit generally. Running power wire can be a pain, I like to do bigger wire than I need so future upgrades are easy. Most people would say for this project 8 gauge is sufficient for a 600ish peak watts system. I say its too much work to run power wire just to end up wanting bigger wire someday as needs change. I'd run at least 6 gauge, maybe even 4 gauge, if you think they are ever going to want some serious bass. For audio you have two options. One is to run RCA cables from the head unit to get sound to the amp, this is the preferred method. If your head unit does not have RCA outs most amps will also accept direct hookups from the rear speakers. Either of those are fine but note your amp needs to have a built-in crossover to cut out all but the low frequencies. Almost all amps will have this but its not guaranteed. Last but not least the amp needs to come on and turn off with the radio (or a switch). For this you run a remote turn-on wire from the amp to the head unit or your switch. This is a thin wire with not much current. Important to understand though, the power to the big wire is always on. The power on the thin remote turn on wire triggers a relay in the amp to turn it on or off. Most of the times the remote turn on wire just goes to the blue remote/antenna wire on the head unit. If it doesn't have one any 12v source with a switch will suffice. Running the wires: super common first-time mistake is running all the wires together for convenience. I know it sucks but you need to make sure your RCA cables run separately away from your power wires and other wires in the car or there will almost for sure be line noise interference heard through the subs. Some really good RCA cables are shielded which helps but still should be run separately. Yeesh are we still just on wiring? Well if you nail that stuff the rest won't be so bad. If you pick a bad box NBD just try another one. If you get a crappy amp and they aren't satisfied with the output you can get a new amp, bigger subs/box whatever and its all pretty quick and easy. If you chinse out and put crappy 8 gauge wire in to save $10 then you won't have big enough wire for a bigger amp and have to start from scratch. If you run the RCA cables along the power wire and you hear interference you have to tear it all up again to move them. Those are the real time suckers. I guess the only thing I've got not related to wiring is a pet peeve: don't leave the sub box unsecured in the trunk. Most people do but those things are heavy and could cause a lot of damage in an accident. Ummm maybe one more thing, mounting the amp, those things need to breathe somewhat. You can get away with screwing the amp to your box to save space but if you do that find some kind of rubber mat to put in between try to absorb some of the shock. Its better if the amp is not screwed to the box but you don't always have other options. Some more two cents? I don't think 600 watts peak is going to make a rock/metal fan happy. The RMS of that system will be, what, like 150 watts? 600 watts RMS, maybe, kinda satisfied. A 1000-1200 watts RMS (Peak 2000+) amp is more like it, driving 2 subs at least 500-600 RMS. That all costs more money and they are probably going to say no, no, don't need that kinda power. Thats ok, go ahead and try the 150 watts RMS setup first and see what you think but if you don't run that 4-6 gauge power cable then later on when they realize no they really do want more power you will think of me and this long-winded post Good luck Edited by arudlang, Nov 5 2014, 09:53 AM.
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| Coche Blanco | Nov 5 2014, 09:08 AM Post #18 |
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Troll Certified
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![]() I would err on the side of too powerful before I made something too weak, because you can always turn it down. With that said I'm not a bass head so none of that really applies to me. |
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| bkelly | Nov 5 2014, 09:20 AM Post #19 |
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Gear Head
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Personally I build my enclosures to maximize the efficiency of the sub. Sealed you can put more power to the sub because the sealed enclosure helps control the suspension of the sub. In a sealed enclosure the sub requires more power to reach it's Xmax. This is the total distance the cone moves in and out. A ported enclosure built to the specific sub specs will reach it's Xmax using almost half of the power needed for a sealed enclosure. Tuning the port near the subs resonate frequency (Fs) will produce tight musical bass and also allow the sub to play at it's lowest hertz range. Subs are wired in single and dual voice coils. This is to arrange the impedance (Ohms) for the amp. It has nothing to do with sound quality as far as the subs are concerned. Ohms are the load provided for the amp. Higher the ohms the higher the resistance. This will reduce the amps total output and it will also reduce the heat the amp produces. The lower the speaker load the more the amps output will be but the amp will also produce more heat. That's why you will see amps rated for a resistance load (example 500w RMS @ 1 ohm). It's a thermal load that restricts the amps power output. In the example, a 1 ohm load, the amp will produce 500 watts but it's at it's safe thermal limits. I like to use a amp that has a RMS rating higher than the subs RMS wattage. This gives me more "head room" to work with. I keep the gain turned down so I reach a full RMS without pushing the amp hard. This keeps the amp from producing a square wave or "clipping" the amp. Square wave outputs are hard on the subs and it's responsible for most sub failures. Now for the average person, sealed is the easiest and safest for the sub. Pick a sub you want and the number you want, then pick the amp for the subs resistance load. I would recommend you match the RMS values for the subs and the amp for the sealed enclosure, make sure your looking at RMS values. If you want to get picky about the sound quality the lower the amps THD @ RMS (Total Harmonic Distortion) the better the amp will produce clear music. You will pick your amp supply wire for the amperage draw from the amp. Example, the amps fused rating is 2 x 40 amp fuses, you need wire and the main fuse to handle a minimum of 80 amps. Also as mentioned, the big 3 needs to be done when adding higher powered amps. Sorry if I have caused confusion, I will explain anything else you may need. Believe it or not, audio systems can get deep in mathematics and physics if you will look into it. Edited by bkelly, Nov 5 2014, 09:35 AM.
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| Metromightymouse | Nov 5 2014, 09:39 AM Post #20 |
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Powdercoat Wizard
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Wrong thread... |
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| bkelly | Nov 5 2014, 09:42 AM Post #21 |
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Gear Head
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I would recommend sealed and have the enclosure match the manufactures suggested sealed volume. Kicker makes enclosures matched to the subs. Then get a amp that will provide the RMS value to match the sub. Polyfill is needed for enclosures that's smaller than optimal volume. If you get a ported enclosure go ahead and buy the prefab from kicker. It will be the closest design for the kicker sub. When using ported enclosures you have to factor port cross section and port length to really get the best from the sub. Edited by bkelly, Nov 5 2014, 09:49 AM.
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| bkelly | Nov 5 2014, 09:58 AM Post #22 |
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Gear Head
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Mythstae, I guess I should have asked this as well. Is this for sound quality or just SPL. Do you just want the bass to be loud? I don't mind helping on the selection. I just need to know what you desire and what is your total budget. We can go from there. Edit: I went back and read your original post. My infomation may not be revelant. Knowing what vehicle it's going into would help as far as power requirements. If they want to go another route with a sub I can offer some quaility built brands that's not too hard on a budget. Sorry if I caused confusion with my earlier post.
Edited by bkelly, Nov 5 2014, 01:33 PM.
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| bikeAmusPrime | Nov 5 2014, 01:13 PM Post #23 |
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If you need any help I am in north portland. I have a couple of cars I am doing full system bypass. I can show you how to add two amplifiers. A 4 channel and a monoblock. Make shure that they want to have capabilities of adding stuff. If you need sourcing amplifiers. I have a couple sets of jl audio amps and subs. I have enough to do two cars right now. Im selling all of this and more to upgrade all the cars. |
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| bikeAmusPrime | Nov 5 2014, 01:16 PM Post #24 |
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A jl 500.1 will do the trick for around 2-3 of the w1 drivers. I have a pair of 10w3v3 and a pair of 12w6v2 subwoofers. If you guys want to scratch the w1 sub and find a pair of better drivers. I even have a set of focal speakers in a 6 1/2" components and a set of 6x9. |
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| Mythstae | Nov 5 2014, 01:30 PM Post #25 |
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Thanks!
Very true!Umm I don't know what that means? And the sub isn't for me, it's for a customer, and communication is sporadic. I get messages off and on throughout the day, but it can easily be hours between messages. That said, what they said earlier was: "I just want to have a nice sounding system that bumps but not to the point that I can't hear myself speak." (Which sounds like my kind of system, honestly.)
Thanks, bikeAmus, I'll let you know if I want to take you up on that... |
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| bkelly | Nov 5 2014, 01:38 PM Post #26 |
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Gear Head
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If they want something to have extra range in the low frequencies and not overpower the rest of the speakers, assuming it's stock, one sub will be plenty. |
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| Mythstae | Nov 5 2014, 01:47 PM Post #27 |
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Ok, to break this all down a bit more specifically...I have been told the sub is new. I have yet to see it with my own eyes. But they say it's new. Excellent advice, thank you... Ok, I'll make sure to check for that! Going to have a brand new head unit; I'm 100% sure it comes with an amp turn-on wire. Duly noted. Hmm, I'm not sure what I'll do, solid brackets or like, a short length of cable bolted from the box to the strut tower or something, like a sub leash... would that work? Just to keep it from flying in case of an accident, right? Mounted to box isn't optimal? Bugger? That's totally what I wanted to do. I'm operating on the theory that they will want to upgrade later and when they do maybe I'll get a sweet deal on a used sub...
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| Mythstae | Nov 5 2014, 01:48 PM Post #28 |
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We'll see...
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| bkelly | Nov 5 2014, 02:32 PM Post #29 |
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Gear Head
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That's why I asked if they want it for sound quality (musically tuned) or SPL (sound pressure level - LOUD Bass). It's possible to build a single sub setup that will match or beat a double sub setup on half the power of the same make sub but it will not be a off the shelf build. If the rest of the speakers are stock or only powered by the head unit they will quickly get to the point you can't hear the music over the sub. Personally I prefer to hear the music and have a sub crossed over low to fill in the low frequencies. To each it's own, most younger people prefer bass heavy music and crank it up to "advertise" to the thefts. Been there done that, Live and learn. I've built a few systems for people and for myself. Bottom line, the customer is always right. Give them what they want. Edited by bkelly, Nov 5 2014, 06:00 PM.
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| Mythstae | Nov 5 2014, 03:17 PM Post #30 |
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Ah, it is the "SPL" that I did not understand. Thank you for clearing that up. It currently HAS stock speakers, and they will most likely be powered by the head unit; I think a speaker upgrade is planned... sometime. The plus side is, the "customer" is a friend of mine, so they are slightly more likely to take advice... But also they are stubborn, so it's 50/50 if they're gonna listen or not.
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600 watts RMS, maybe, kinda satisfied. A 1000-1200 watts RMS (Peak 2000+) amp is more like it, driving 2 subs at least 500-600 RMS. That all costs more money and they are probably going to say no, no, don't need that kinda power. Thats ok, go ahead and try the 150 watts RMS setup first and see what you think but if you don't run that 4-6 gauge power cable then later on when they realize no they really do want more power you will think of me and this long-winded post

7:58 PM Jul 10