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New tires to the rear?; Just saw this
Topic Started: Feb 5 2015, 03:05 PM (4,128 Views)
Old Man


If you don't have good tires all around at least buy some life insurance
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econoboxer
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I am the one on the left.

Old Man
Feb 6 2015, 10:44 AM
If you don't have good tires all around at least buy some life insurance
:gp

:thumb
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Silver2K


I live in Southern CA where I don't have to live with snow, nor do I go racing around corners when it's raining. My primary concern is braking and hydroplaning. And for those two things I want the newer tire up front. But the last two times I've gone to Pep boys they refuse to put the new tires on the front. And they point to some poster put out by the DOT and say its against the law or some BS. I assume the real reason is that some lawyer decided it was safer legally to follow DOT guidelines and avoid a lawsuit if someone spins out after buying tires. But again, for my situation, I want the new tires up front.
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Old Man


Silver2K
Feb 6 2015, 11:30 AM
I live in Southern CA where I don't have to live with snow, nor do I go racing around corners when it's raining. My primary concern is braking and hydroplaning. And for those two things I want the newer tire up front. front.
Even in this situation the tires go in the back. The reason, (theory?), is quite simple.
In the rain, when you brake, both front tires do not equally brake. One side might be hydroplaning more than the other, or the front brake mechanics might not be exactly the same, putting more braking on one side therefore having a tendency for the car to slew to one side keeping the car going in a straight line.
Slick tires on the back will not stop a slide such as this, good tires on the back will help stop the slide.

Note that the 'theory' is geared towards the person who has the least experience and/or the least intelligence. This protects all on the road to the best effect,.
Edited by Old Man, Feb 6 2015, 11:48 AM.
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TripleThreat


THANKS GMF!
Edited by TripleThreat, Mar 15 2015, 01:59 AM.
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94RHDRollerskate
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Forum Stud Muffin

When I took my wife's car in for tires, Discount said they had to install the new ones on the rear and leave the two shot ones in the front (that I replaced the following pay period). I questioned it, and they have a diagram on their counter showing how the rear of the car would skid if the rear tires were poor. I can understand this if in an area that has inclimate weather, but we're in Arizona. I took the car home and swapped them to the front myself. Last I need is a front tire blowing at freeway speeds and the car losing control. A rear tire fail will not cause the car to lose control in dry conditions. I feel much better with all four new on the car. They were original 2008 tires and had started to separate from going past their life range and AZ heat. Tread wasn't the issue.
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cwatkin


In the case of a blowout, I would definitely prefer that to happen on the rear. I can't blame you for putting the shot ones on the back for a short time in dry weather.

Conor
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perfesser
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Elite Member - Former Metro owner

Old Man
Feb 6 2015, 11:47 AM
Even in this situation the tires go in the back. The reason, (theory?), is quite simple.
In the rain, when you brake, both front tires do not equally brake. One side might be hydroplaning more than the other, or the front brake mechanics might not be exactly the same, putting more braking on one side therefore having a tendency for the car to slew to one side keeping the car going in a straight line.
The more weight there is on a tire, the more traction that tire will have. Anyone here sit in the center of their car like a McClaren F1? No?? Okay, the tire loading is asymmetrical on all our cars when we drive alone. The driver side tires have more traction than those at the other end of their axles. On dry roads this isn't a problem, but when you're generating g-forces on marginal surfaces, it can make a big difference.

By its very nature, understeer is easier to correct than oversteer. Drivers at the elite level of performance, focusing 100% on what the car is doing, can handle oversteer safely, but I doubt anyone here is at that level. I've driven all manner of high- and low-performance vehicles, with 2, 3, 4 or more wheels, for the last 50 years. I've taken special high-performance driving courses on various tracks for motorcycles, sidecars and sports cars. I've pushed cars to the max on the autobahn many times. I don't drive at the elite level. 100% focus? On flat Minnesota highways?? Ain't happening! Anyone who says they drive at that level better not have a sound system, heater, defroster, AC, passenger, cell phone or lustful thoughts to distract him!

You can find ways to cheat state laws regarding where tires should go, but you cannot cheat the laws of physics. Mother Nature is a hard grader!!
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Woodie
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Driving a car with oversteer does not require race driver skills and 100% attention, it just requires a little bit of experience. Anyone who has driven a rear wheel drive car in the snow should be able to do it. The reason for this idiotic best tires in the rear policy is to protect the average idiotic driver. Same reason car makers tune their suspensions to understeer from the factory. The competent driver can deal with over or understeer equally. The average driver will panic in an oversteer situation, but their natural reaction to understeer is the correct one.

So, if you're a typical moron, follow this advice. If you have a decent understanding of what to do when, then put your better tires in front where they can do the most good.
Edited by Woodie, Feb 7 2015, 06:51 AM.
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sphenicie


1DCGUY
Feb 6 2015, 10:35 AM
Folks, don't take this deal lightly.
I learned the hard way on why you need good tires on the back of your Metro, or any car for that matter.
I drove a friends Metro after working on it for a few days in the winter with snow on the roads, he had just put new Snow tires on the front of the car, but left the old tires on the back of the car.
I would have never believed that a Metro could spin out being a front wheel drive car, but it did every time I turned a corner. :O
The first time it happened, I turned a corner, and damn near got run over by a semi when the car spun in front of him. :scared
Thankfully he stopped in time!!

DO NOT dismiss this as BS, take it from someone that drives in the snow often, that you need good tires in the back, and not just on the front. :thumb




but just think, if you didn't have good traction on the front, you wouldn't have to worry about the rear washing out. cause you wouldn't be going anywhere.


this is also the most fun out on the lake!
Edited by sphenicie, Feb 7 2015, 07:34 AM.
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perfesser
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Elite Member - Former Metro owner

I sure hope you guys with an enhanced confidence in the superiority of your skills in all situations never have cause to find out just how wrong you may be. It would be "idiotic" for some "moron" who ignored sound practice in setting his car up in defiance of the laws of physics and accepted best practices to destroy his car (at least) because he didn't have as much control over the complete driving environment as he thought he did. A wise man will not set up his car for the best case conditions.
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dayle1960
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Fastest Hampster EVER

My wife went to walmart and wanted two new tires on the front of her minivan. The gal at the register said they would only install the new tires on the rear. My wife thought WTF and told the lady to put them on the front. The lady then told my wife she had to sign a waiver to get the tires on the front. BS!!!! I'm the customer, DO WHAT I WANT!!!!

Time for the metro to have a couple of new tires on the front due to wear issues. She again took it to walmart and the same scenario happened. The only way those tires would be put up front was to sign the waiver, again.

It's getting a little tiresome that the nanny state is dictating what we can and cannot do with our own property. As a paying customer is is my right and decision as to where I tell the mechanics to install my tires. If I want them to put a new tire on the front left and the rear right it should be my decision. I'm paying for the product and the installation, why notget what I want?

perfesser, I admire your input into this topic. Unfortunately I cannot deduce which side of the coin you are on. Do you agree with new tires up front or in the rear?

DC, good reply with your original post. Very informative. Thanks.

I have found that driving a metro on ice covered roads gives me a sense of safety which I do not have with other vehicles. I know how a metro will react at certain speeds and I darn well keep the speed down while traveling the interstate during inclement weather.

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sphenicie


awe perfesser, cut me some slack. I try to only driver like an 'idiot' on the lake. and then I do put plenty drywall screws in the front tires, for superior traction during acceleration, as witnessed by my 48mph 1/8 mile for the ice drags. yea, being the only car in the sled drags, a lot of people did call me a 'moron'. BUT, technically, I was under the 1000cc limit, and all the proceeds go to the local fire dept.

picks up front, bald as can be in back, wide open on the lake......a bakers dozen of doughnuts in a row !!
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geogonfa
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In my OWN opinion...I normally will purchase two at the same time putting them on the front...I make it a practice that every time I travel I do a walk around, checking the condition of my wonderful road machines. If I notice a tire near the wear bars, or I see any dry rot, I know its time for a replacement. But due to the way Texas roads are we don't deal much with snow/ice road conditions in which most areas do, our biggest problem is due to such long periods of no rain, the roads have a lot of oil spots so when it finally does rain its worse than ice, so it doesn't matter where the tallest tread is, your most likely to slide either way...It's called Slow Down and be a cautious driver...My biggest concern is Dry Rot...when in the summer months and the temps hit 105 degrees those dry rotted and half worn tires become " MayPops". and I personally would keep the best tires up front in case of a blow out due to its easier to maintain control of a FWD if the blow out occurs on the rear...now, just a little of my own thoughts are, all lawyers will tell you its not your fault your a knuckle head, it's always someone else's fault...like, lets say who has the most money we can make off your negligence, because your never at fault...again this is just my $.02 :type
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Tubablake
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I always put the new tires where the power is, so fwd gets front and rwd gets rear. If you can't get any traction to get going then you don't have to worry about steering abilities. It's like worrying about your paint job when your whole front end is smashed in. If you drive safely and with sense then you will be okay. If all 4 tires are not okay then you don't need to be driving in bad weather. Also if you rotate your tires properly then those tires will not be a problem.
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