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| New tires to the rear?; Just saw this | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 5 2015, 03:05 PM (4,127 Views) | |
| perfesser | Feb 8 2015, 05:10 PM Post #31 |
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Elite Member - Former Metro owner
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Here we get to the heart of the matter. Wal-Mart didn't say they would not install the tires on the front. They only asked for something to protect them from what they think is a realistic possibility that something will go wrong. They are the deepest pockets any law firm could hope for. All the science says that 2 new tires should go to the rear. If a person insists on putting his personal preference ahead of the science, and it doesn't turn out as their private theory predicted, they know what's coming next. You can't blame them. Lest there be any ambiguity as to my position, I am firmly on the side of the science. I have had enough experience over the years that I'm not threatened when I encounter someone who knows more than I do. When presented with new facts that run contrary to what I had thought, I do the research and let it take me where it will. I am fortunate to have a job where I can get paid to do this kind of stuff. I have no problem with a person having their own beliefs. I just hope that when life teaches them otherwise they and everyone around them survives the grading. |
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| Coche Blanco | Feb 8 2015, 05:20 PM Post #32 |
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Troll Certified
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Buy all four tires at once? It's not like they are 500 bucks each. |
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| GTluver | Feb 8 2015, 05:33 PM Post #33 |
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The MN welder.
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THANK YOU!
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| PTA2PTB | Feb 8 2015, 05:35 PM Post #34 |
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I'm totally awesome! I swear.
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...but if Joseph Smith had commanded his followers to put their best foot, and Conestoga wagon wheels, forward?
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| 1DCGUY | Feb 8 2015, 05:43 PM Post #35 |
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Don't be a "Richard"
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Coche, you may have stumbled on the very reason large companies don't want to put just 2 tires on the front. WE ARE CHEAP ASSES!!! Yup, I said it, we the folks that drive Metro's, by nature are cheap and or frugal, that's why we only want to buy 2 tires. Folks, if you want to buy 2 tires, it's certainly your right to do that, but please don't complain when someone asks you to sign a waiver to cover their ass. I will be the first to admit that I have put 2 new tires on the front of my car. But on that same note, I actually know what will happen when I drive on wet, icy, or snow covered road if I do that. The companies that will not do it, or at least ask for a waiver, are doing that for the folks that have no clue what happens when you have 2 new tires on the front. Sit back and think about that last sentence for just a bit before you comment. Every one of us knows one of these people, and they scare the hell out of me. We as Metro owners are probably more in tune with being defensive drivers than anyone on the road, well except Smart car drivers, those cars are just stupid!! We must know what's going on around us at all time's, just because our cars are so small.
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| Silver2K | Feb 8 2015, 06:29 PM Post #36 |
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In 30 years of driving I have never lost control of my vehicle because my rear tires lost traction. It's not because I am a great driver. It's because I live in So CA and drive on freeways. I do lock up my front tires at least twice a month due to hard braking. 99% of my driving is at high speed on highways. I keep my best tires up front to avoid rear ending someone. The odds of me rear ending someone far outweighs the odds of me spinning out due to rear tires losing traction. I always try to keep my best tires up front. The guideline to keep your best tires in the back is just a guideline. If i lived somewhere where it snowed I would follow the rule. But on So CA highways it's gibberish. As to replacing all 4 tires, sometimes you have 1 bad tire. Why replace all 4 when you can replace 2. |
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| PTA2PTB | Feb 8 2015, 06:35 PM Post #37 |
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I'm totally awesome! I swear.
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And if the front tires on your fwd car are near bald, while there rears have plenty of tread because you "observed the guidelines", and you find yourself trying to make it up a hill in the snow, what are you going to do? It's not like you can just turn the car around and back your way up the hill. |
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| dayle1960 | Feb 8 2015, 07:04 PM Post #38 |
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Fastest Hampster EVER
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Well crap!!! If I put new tires on the front of my metro, then on a wet/slick/icy road the rear end will whip out and I'll be involved in an accident. If I put new tires on the BACK of my metro, then on a wet/slick/icy road the front end will loose contact with the road because of hydroplaning issues or no traction from the front tires. Either way looks like I'm screwed. Sounds like the tire companies just came up with a new way to scare folks into buying four new tires. Edited by dayle1960, Feb 8 2015, 07:06 PM.
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| Bad Bent | Feb 8 2015, 07:12 PM Post #39 |
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Facetious Educated Donkey
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So... next time we buy tires we get the right sides replaced. Works for oval track racers. See if the tire dealer has an answer for the fact you make more left turns and so the right sides are wearing out. Probably still have to sign a waiver.
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| Tubablake | Feb 8 2015, 08:04 PM Post #40 |
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Where are you from in SE Mn? I lived in Red Wing for a few years. Im sure you know when the snow gets packed on the road and stays there for weeks you need good tires on the power to get going. I think in all my time there my back only slid once or twice and on packed snow I think that's pretty good. |
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| Woodie | Feb 9 2015, 05:53 AM Post #41 |
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The rear tires on a Metro support weight so that the bumper doesn't drag, that's it. You could almost put shopping cart casters on there and do as well. 100% of the traction, 90% of the braking, and about 70% of the cornering are handled by the fronts. |
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| perfesser | Feb 9 2015, 10:43 AM Post #42 |
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Elite Member - Former Metro owner
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Could you post links to where that information is found, please? I like having my chassis engineering class use real-world data in solving vehicle dynamics problems. Thanks! |
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| sphenicie | Feb 9 2015, 02:50 PM Post #43 |
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actually, all fun aside, we were just talking about this at work. one of the crew needed a ride to drop off his car to get two new front tires. when he picked it up, they put the new ones on the rear. he was PISSED cause now he would have to do the extra work to swap them around. he told them he paid for them to go on the front and blah blah... turns out, the service centers insurance company requires that if two tires are purchased, they must be installed on the rear. |
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| Silver2K | Feb 9 2015, 03:05 PM Post #44 |
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As far as the braking, my car has 400K. In that time I've changed the fornt brake pads 6-7 times. The rear shoes are still original and look new. I bought a replacement set 10 years ago but the shoes on the car are still as thick as the replacements. So I've never changed them. From this I conclude the rear wheels provide very little braking. |
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| myredvert | Feb 9 2015, 03:17 PM Post #45 |
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myredvert
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Several month ago I had done a rough weight and balance spreadsheet to calculate the longitudinal center of gravity location, if that would help perfesser? Using "typical" earlier model 2 door hatchback weights and measurements, I found the CG location using the wheelbase as a reference with the front wheels as the datum ("zero' reference) was pproximately ... 34% (of the wheel base length aft of the front wheels) for a 200 lb driver and zero fuel. So 66/34 front to rear weight split, or ~ 525 lbs on the rear tires, 1200 lbs on the front. A full fuel tank (66 lbs) moves the CG approximately 3% more aft. A front seat passenger (200 lbs) moves the CG aft roughly 2%. Each rear seat passenger will move the CG aft another 2% each. With full fuel and 3x200 lb passengers, the weight distribution becomes roughly 55/45 front to rear. Of course, I know you realize that the dynamics of an oversteer are simply described by weight distribution alone, when the center of gravity begins to diverge laterally from the direction of travel it creates a statically unstable condition and notwithstanding steering inputs will tend to make the rear of the car continue to diverge laterally from the direction of travel. The farther aft the CG is, the worse the static instability becomes. An understeer on the other hand is much less affected by center of gravity location, as lateral displacement of the center of gravity from the longitudinal centerline of the vehicle will tend to stay aligned the direction of (unintended) travel, and as such is an inherently stable static stability condition. You may not be pointed and traveling in the direction you want to be, but the physics involved won't tend towards divergence as they will with an oversteer. Once lateral traction is lost the inertia of the vehicle will tend to continue a straight line from that point on. I hope the (roughly calculated) center of gravity/weight distribution information was what you were looking for, and I realize it doesn't directly address braking distribution without considering proportioning... ![]() |
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We must know what's going on around us at all time's, just because our cars are so small. 

9:50 AM Jul 11