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Charging System Still Not Working
Topic Started: Feb 17 2015, 02:18 PM (2,303 Views)
MichaelSAlford
Advanced Member
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I have a lovely 1995 Metro that has an intermittent fault; the battery will not charge up. So far, in my maddening quest to uncover it, I have replaced the battery, the alternator, the battery cables, plus all the fuses and relays involved in the charging system. I have put my hand on every inch ( I think) of the wiring looking for broken wires or kinks or grounds. I have unplugged or unbolted every ground that I can find in the car, cleaned the connections and reattached them. I have pulled and tugged on wires while the car is running , looking for a voltage jump. Sometimes it charges up great, sometimes it charges up half-hearted, and sometimes it doesn't charge up at all. This problem surfaced about a year ago and drove me nuts for a couple of weeks and then disappeared on its own for several months. The charge light almost never comes on, even when it is not charging.
Recently a symptom arose that might mean something or it might mean nothing. I drove somewhere, put the battery on a charger and then when I was ready to leave, put it back in. when I turned the key the headlights flashed on and off while the charge light blinked on and off. I grabbed my battery, got a ride home and came back for the car later. when I came back for the car, the problem did not repeat, but later that day it did. So with headlights flashing, i began unplugging things and when I unplugged the drivers side headlight the flashing stopped. I plugged the headlight back in and the flashing stopped and the car started charging, but the next day was back to not charging.
Crazy, huh?
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idmetro
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Sounds brutal. With the car running what sort of voltage are you getting at the battery?
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MichaelSAlford
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It depends, and it does something different every day. when it's working I get just over 14 volts at the battery, when it's not, I can turn the headlights and on and watch it slowly drift down. At around 10 volts the engine will turn off going down the road.
I can ( usually) unhook the battery while it's running and it will continue running, so I know the alternator is working.
This morning the headlights flashed for the first 60 feet or so of my commute, then turned off on their own, turned back on on their own and the car ran like a top all the way to work (22 miles). when I got to work I checked the battery, expecting it to be drained, and it was not.
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myredvert
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myredvert

I would consider making it a priority to look for a short in the headlight system without allowing it to continually reoccur. Have you also carefully inspected both sides (bottom and top) of the cabin junction block for signs of shorting or wiring damage?

Do your driving requirements allow you to pull the headlight fuses (H/L RH and LH) and drive for some period of time to see if the problem re-occurs, and re-install them when you have time to safely troubleshoot the system (as in NOT while you are driving)?

What you don't really want is to continue driving while it does this and risk a potentially more serious electrical failure occurring, even though that failure may give you some more obvious information as to where the problem is. As ironic as irony can often be, melted wiring and electrical fires can be far worse.
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MichaelSAlford
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I have monitored the voltage output when the headlights themselves are unplugged, with no difference. I have checked the fuses associated with the headlights, but haven't removed them while the engine was running. This would probably be easier to figure out if it was consistent.
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Hotrodray1
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Over Educated parts guy

fuse box driver side under hood.flip it over and check where wire plugs in from alternator some times it will get loose or burn slightly and charging goes on and off!
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MichaelSAlford
Advanced Member
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I did check that pretty early on, but since the last 3 or inches of that wire is wrapped in electrical tape, it may warrant replacing anyway. After all, I've replaced battery, alternator and all the fuses, and relays, why not?
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nwgeo


The alternator ground connection is just as important as the positive connection to your battery and fuse box.

I know you said you checked all your connections/grounds but sometimes connections points can still be bad/intermitantly bad as well.

You said you unpluged your lights and you still had this problem... so I would rule out the lights... at least at the headlight plug location.

Your alternater grounds to your engine so your connections there must be good, but you must have good grround connections from the engine to your battery and to your frame. If you have a multi meter, check your resistance value from your alternatior to your black battery cable where it connects to the battery.(With the battery disconnected) Your resisance should read zero or near zero. If you don't have a multi meter you can get one from harbor frieght for under $10. If the alternator charges some times and not other times you have a working alternator. If it does not charge you have a bad connection. It it drains down, you may have a weakend battery(even though it is new) due to bad conections from the alternator to the battery.
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nwgeo


Sorry to hear you change all this stuff but sometimes things can look like a good connection but can still not be good.
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MichaelSAlford
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I have already performed the check from the black battery cable to the ground side of the battery looking for a drain. I found none. I think the problem is really quite simple. i think the (new)alternator is sometimes charging the (new) battery, and sometimes isn't. Now WHY that's happening continues to elude me. At some point I may have to take it to somebody, especially since I appear to have tried/replaced/investigated the entire charging circuit,but nobody in my area does electrical stuff for cars.
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nwgeo


It is possible you could have a bad connection in the alternator but in my 40 years of wrenching I have never known an alternater to act as you have discribed. You do not have a bad or loose belt right?

Yes, if you can take your alternator to Orielly or Atuozone or NAPA they can check it for you and let you know.
If your alternator works part of the time I thinks you have a different problem, but by all means get the sucker confirmed as good before you go farther.

I want to you be careful how you check your charging circuit, Did you check your ground from the battery terminal to the motor block, from the motor block to the alternator base? This must all be good.

Then on your positive side did you check your circuit from the positive battery terminal all the way to the alternator positive point.

Also, if you start your engine you can check different points on the positive cable as you are moving your postive cable.... you could have a bad spot in your cable and as your system is charging, move the wires and see if your charging voltage goes down or away this would indicate a bad/open spot in the wire. You can check the ground connectiions the same way... look at your charging voltage as you wiggle various parts of your ground.

On your alternator you could have a bad spot right at the stud that connects to the positive cable, if you can wiggle that connections a little with the engine running(be careful) and see if your charging voltage varies. this is another test area.

Another place to check is your ground bolt of the engine block, if it is goobered up with grease or gunk it can be an intermittent bad connection....that bolt including the threads should be clean and dry as possible.


Hang in there and good luck. :popcorn
Edited by nwgeo, Feb 18 2015, 05:30 PM.
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MichaelSAlford
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Alternator tests good on a bench. And yes, I have wiggled and tugged on every wire I can find in the charging system except for the alternator plug because the belt is moving and the engine compartment is pretty tight. I've started from the alternator and hand-over-hand checked every inch of the wire from the alternator through the fuse block, to the battery, from the battery to the starter and then back to the alternator. I think my best bet is to start over and check everything again.
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Old Man


fuse block on the drivers fender -- main fuse is bolted in. take the fuse block loose, turn it over, unbolt the fuse, clean the connections and put it all back together. don't know if it will do any good, but it cant hurt. also double check the ground connection to the tranny and the bottom of the throttle body.
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Mrbreeze


And do remember that wires may appear to look good and be broken inside the insulation, do continuity test.. I've had that happen more than once..
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

And since no one else mentioned it, don't disconnect the battery while the car is running. It is one of the few ways to kill an ECU.
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