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Charging System Still Not Working
Topic Started: Feb 17 2015, 02:18 PM (2,307 Views)
nwgeo


Yes, good post from old man to check the connection and main fuse. Fuse can look good and test good and then pull on it and the fuse will test bad, does not happen often but have seen it.
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MichaelSAlford
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Really? I was told it was that long-term its not good but it was a quick way to check to see if the alternator is actually putting out. Ah well, live and learn. I drove home from work last night with all indications that the system was charging. I drove into work this morning with my charge light on the whole time but I had a good solid 12.5 volts on the battery after I shut it off. I was poking around a bit in the parking lot at work and noticed that the belt has a bit more play in it than I recall it having when I replaced it. I put my finger on the belt and the belt is starting to fray pretty substantially. Fortunately I keep a spare belt in the back so tonight I will replace the belt, tighten everything as tight as I can get it and see what it does next.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

MichaelSAlford
Feb 19 2015, 09:35 AM
Really? I was told it was that long-term its not good but it was a quick way to check to see if the alternator is actually putting out. Ah well, live and learn. I drove home from work last night with all indications that the system was charging. I drove into work this morning with my charge light on the whole time but I had a good solid 12.5 volts on the battery after I shut it off. I was poking around a bit in the parking lot at work and noticed that the belt has a bit more play in it than I recall it having when I replaced it. I put my finger on the belt and the belt is starting to fray pretty substantially. Fortunately I keep a spare belt in the back so tonight I will replace the belt, tighten everything as tight as I can get it and see what it does next.
That is likely your answer. It is slipping but not squealing. Clean your pulleys really well with a wire brush, clean off all the rubber particulate that is likely everywhere, install a new belt and tighten it just a little tighter than you think you should (unless you have done it on this car a bunch of times) and you may just solve your issue.

Removing the battery from the circuit allows very noisy/ spiky power to go to every circuit in the car. Older cars it was no big deal, new cars with computer chips don't like that. It can very easily fry the chips in every electronic item in the car.
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Old Man


MichaelSAlford
Feb 19 2015, 09:35 AM
I put my finger on the belt and the belt is starting to fray pretty substantially.
That could be the best indicator of your problem.

If that belt is "starting to fray" then that could indicate that your pulleys are not exactly in line.

Good possibility that the belt runs ok for a while - giving a good charge - then trys to climb out because of out of alignment and during that time it is slipping and not giving a good charge.

EDIT: Not only check your pulley alignment to each other but also make sure that the alternator is not cocked by its mounting bracket.
Edited by Old Man, Feb 19 2015, 10:49 AM.
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Metromightymouse
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Old Man
Feb 19 2015, 10:47 AM
MichaelSAlford
Feb 19 2015, 09:35 AM
I put my finger on the belt and the belt is starting to fray pretty substantially.
That could be the best indicator of your problem.

If that belt is "starting to fray" then that could indicate that your pulleys are not exactly in line.

Good possibility that the belt runs ok for a while - giving a good charge - then trys to climb out because of out of alignment and during that time it is slipping and not giving a good charge.

EDIT: Not only check your pulley alignment to each other but also make sure that the alternator is not cocked by its mounting bracket.
Good call OM
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idmetro
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Metromightymouse
Feb 19 2015, 01:00 PM
Old Man
Feb 19 2015, 10:47 AM
MichaelSAlford
Feb 19 2015, 09:35 AM
I put my finger on the belt and the belt is starting to fray pretty substantially.
That could be the best indicator of your problem.

If that belt is "starting to fray" then that could indicate that your pulleys are not exactly in line.

Good possibility that the belt runs ok for a while - giving a good charge - then trys to climb out because of out of alignment and during that time it is slipping and not giving a good charge.

EDIT: Not only check your pulley alignment to each other but also make sure that the alternator is not cocked by its mounting bracket.
Good call OM
That will do it! My son's Swift wasn't charging the other day so went and towed him home where we could check it out, found that the bottom pivot bolt on the alternator was gone allowing the alternator to "wander" a bit wearing/loosening the belt and generally making things not work well. Didn't find the bottom bolt gone until we were trying to adjust the alternator (to tighten the belt) and ran out of adjustment without coming as tight as I knew it needed to be, scavenged a replacement bolt and suddenly we were back in the middle of the adjustment range and all was well with the world again.
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MichaelSAlford
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All my troubleshooting hopes were dashed by family obligations when I got home last night. So I charged the battery up and started out for work this morning. I didnt have any headlights at fiorst so I shut it off and unplugged/replugged the headlights, which fixed it. The charge light came on and stayed on. And on the way to work this morning, the car was overheating (while it was 24 degrees outside). I stopped at a gas station, called work, started to head home, changed my mind. I let it run and watched it and noticed that the radiator fan never came on. I was still thinking of going home when it occurred to me that I would be stranded at the house with a non-working car and the nearest parts house 10 miles away, plus I'd burn a vacation day. So I unplugged the thermostat sensor which made the fan stay on, and drove to work that way.

I don’t know if all these problems are related, or if I'm introducing new issues by my incessant plugging and unplugging of electrical things.

It's a little frustrating that, with forced OT at work , family obligations and weather conditions, it seems like all I have time to do is to keep commuting back and forth to work. I need to take a whole day and just stop and get this as straightened out as I can. Ugh.
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Metromightymouse
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Powdercoat Wizard

Unplugging and replugging connectors is not an issue and will not have negative results as that is what they are designed to do. When you do that you move the wires and you scrape the oxidation off of the terminals. If the wires near any connector are stiff it may be an indicator that they have been overheated and the insulation has been cooked hard and the wires cooked soft/ brittle. Check any you find like this very carefully and consider new wires/ connectors etc. The fact that you can change what is working and not working this way implies there is a ground issue or a broken/ partially broken wire somewhere.
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Hanuman
"The Almighty Grounds Cleaner"

Old Man
Feb 18 2015, 07:20 PM
fuse block on the drivers fender -- main fuse is bolted in. take the fuse block loose, turn it over, unbolt the fuse, clean the connections and put it all back together. don't know if it will do any good, but it cant hurt. also double check the ground connection to the tranny and the bottom of the throttle body.
:gp
your geo is waving a huge clue in your face! :deal
your headlights are flashing because the relay is being energised then de-energised over and over.
what does your headlight relays have in common with the alternator?
engine bay fuse box.

1 of 2 things is happening.......
the alternators windings are being turned on and off.....
or the charge reaching the fuse box is being interupted over and over.

remove the fuse box, all fuses and relays....closly inspect fuse box under some good light for damage.
inspect and clean all wiring connectors....correct any damage.
reinstall fuse box fuses and relays. make sure all connections are tight.
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MichaelSAlford
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I considered that, since the relay for the radiator fan is in the same fuse box. But early on in the troubleshooting I did that very thing, completely removed the fuse box, took everything out and inspected it, put it all back together and reinstalled it. I guess I could try it again.
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MichaelSAlford
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Sigh......I hope this is it....ok...so I pulled out both fuse boxes on the drivers side under the hood. I reseated relays, checked fuses, inspected the bottom of the plastic case, wiggled connections, smelled for burned wires, etc...nothing..so I say to myself "well, let's try either throwing on a new belt or tightening the old one". That's when I discovered that the alternator bolt was missing. This happened once before and I still don't know how it walks its way out of that threaded bracket, but it's gone. The only tension on the belt is being supplied by the weight of the alternator itself. So does anyone happen to know what length/thread count I need to get?
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1DCGUY
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Don't be a "Richard"

MichaelSAlford
Feb 20 2015, 04:42 PM
Sigh......I hope this is it....ok...so I pulled out both fuse boxes on the drivers side under the hood. I reseated relays, checked fuses, inspected the bottom of the plastic case, wiggled connections, smelled for burned wires, etc...nothing..so I say to myself "well, let's try either throwing on a new belt or tightening the old one". That's when I discovered that the alternator bolt was missing. This happened once before and I still don't know how it walks its way out of that threaded bracket, but it's gone. The only tension on the belt is being supplied by the weight of the alternator itself. So does anyone happen to know what length/thread count I need to get?
So wait??

Your saying this has happened before, and you didn't check that first??


:smackface :smackface :smackface :smackface
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Old Man


1DCGUY
Feb 20 2015, 05:08 PM
:smackface :smackface :smackface :smackface
:gp :gp :gp :gp
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MichaelSAlford
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I offer two points in my defense
1)I'm an idiot
2)the reason it fell out before is the previous owner had not used the right bolt.I used the right bolt and ran it all the way in so......

Did I mention I'm an idiot?
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t3ragtop
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker

the under hood fuse and relay box has a buss system made from spot welded flat steel. i have seen those so corroded that the spot welds had separated causing high resistance connections. those bad connections heated up the steel buss to the point where the metal would warp from the heat enough to completely open the main circuits.

the alternator output runs through a 6 gauge cable to the fuse and relay box where it snaps on with a quick disconnect fitting. from there the buss bars pull off various circuits and power the big fuses that are in a row. one of those busses feeds a small diameter wire attached to the battery's + post. that's the charge wire.

a charging wire with intermittant connections would produce your symptoms.
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