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| Alternator upgrade MOD; i would like to splice my 200a mazda protege alternator into my 1992 metro 3/5 HB | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 16 2015, 11:28 AM (1,460 Views) | |
| HOLLiiWOOD | May 16 2015, 11:28 AM Post #1 |
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I'm just in the planning stages of this conversion, but I haven't seen anything that would discourage me from continuing. I have this wiring diagram for the Protege alt. ![]() The alt was out of a 1999, but the colour coding is correct on this diagram, compared to my Haynes. The haynes wiring diagram for the geo is super vague too, and I will have to trace the wire to their functions in order to figure out the ignition and sensing wires. I haven't checked for space or size, and I may have to change the pulley and the belt length. Also the subwoofer the new alt will power won't perform properly inside such a tiny car, and the already built boxes don't really fit either. First chance I get, I will pull my current alternator and check the size/space. I knoe that if it will bolt on I can get it wired; I'm a mad scientist, I can wire anything directly into anything! After I knoe it will fit, and won't need an rediculous bracket, I can figure the wiring. The protege alt has a B+ and a plug with 2 terminals. The two terminals are labeled P and D (on the alternator) and in the wiring diagram I linked to, they are on the right, W/L and LG/W I don't remember which is which I will post more info when I get in there next. I guess the question I have is can I assume the alternators are wired the same. I'll have to brush up on my wiring diagram legends but on the protege diagram the LG/W wire is connected to a resistor and a diode. Can I assume that the resistor/diode combination on the geo alternator is the same wire? (Either sensing or ingition) or could they resistor/diode combination be used differently. I am well versed with electronics, I'm just better at re-wiring and upgrading. I can do the Frankenstein thing, but this is not a cheap piece of equipment I'm playing with. Thanks for any help, and I will keep you posted on my progress |
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| Bjetmech | May 16 2015, 11:59 AM Post #2 |
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I would re verify anything and everything from a Haynes manual, especially the metro before going forward. They aren't that accurate. Compare it to a FSM would be your best bet. There are topics talking about an alt upgrade with a CS130 GM alternator. Even a kit with a mounting bracket. Edited by Bjetmech, May 16 2015, 12:02 PM.
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| HOLLiiWOOD | May 17 2015, 11:32 AM Post #3 |
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I have seen this cs130 mod. Very nice. But I have an H O alt that has 12 and 6 o'clock brackets. Both two wires, and my H O puts out max amps at 1100 rpm. I haven't got in there to test anything, but I'm %70 sure the LG/W wire on the H.O. is the sensing wire, which will go to the L wire on the geo, and the W/L wire on the H.O. will go to the IG on the geo. I wish I would have posted the sites I found the geo alt. wiring diagram. Pretty sure it was team swift or here, came as a downloadable PDF. Can anybody tell me about an older model gm alt that will bolt to the ac bracket?!?!?! I saw someone here suggest that and I would love to finally run dual alt. ESPECIALLY in the smallest car I have owned. I would like to learn to make brackets and have them work and be in alignment. But for now I will try this drop in, and hope for the best. Testing wise; the IG wire should have 12v~ when key on, and the L wire should have 12v~ with the engine off and 0v with the alternator running, correct? |
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| Hanuman | May 17 2015, 12:32 PM Post #4 |
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"The Almighty Grounds Cleaner"
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the sensing line is +12 always hot. this is the voltage the regulator monitors to maintain proper charging voltage.---------all cars have this circuit. the secont wire will be a switched positive. this wire grounds through the alternator when its not charging......and becomes positive when charging. the charge light recieves power from this line and grounds through the alternator turning the light on. when alternator begins charging this line becomes positive which removes the ground for the charge light so it goes out. -----------------all cars have this circuit also. i would need to pull up my wiring diagramfor the windings.....how the windings are powered is different from car to car......there are only a few ways to do it.....but i dont remember what way the metro uses. Edited by Hanuman, May 17 2015, 12:36 PM.
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| HOLLiiWOOD | May 19 2015, 09:52 AM Post #5 |
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Photos of the dry fit. every thing lines up, i just can't find the FSM pages for the protege alternator. I need more examples of what voltage regulators look like in diagrams so that i can figure out the altii wiring on the protege side from what i can see, the LG/W wire on the protege alternator is the charging light circuit. I also need a bolt to mount to adjuster bracet http://i.imgur.com/5Wt8wDh.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/maosW71.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/WedDsyi.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/48IvTv6.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/tzMGviF.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/WQcBjp0.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/64xa6ep.jpgneeds trimming here ~ Edited by HOLLiiWOOD, May 20 2015, 11:55 PM.
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| MR Bill | May 19 2015, 11:54 AM Post #6 |
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Somebody resize the pictures . please. |
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| HOLLiiWOOD | May 20 2015, 11:49 PM Post #7 |
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I can not get the 200a altii to bench test i've seen many diagrams, and i'm at the point where i don't know how to active the NPN transistor |
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| HOLLiiWOOD | May 21 2015, 01:24 AM Post #8 |
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i still haaven't had sucessful bench test, but at this pont i am thinking that the W/L wire is 12v and the LG/W wire needs 5v if i haven't frired the transistor with over current |
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| HOLLiiWOOD | May 21 2015, 10:52 PM Post #9 |
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$40 for a new voltage regulator and $90 worth of labour will make my High Output alternator universal. transistor blown or not: the LG/W wire was a modulated signal from the ECU that is continuously changed based on an external voltage regulator and ECU calculation well worth the investment though, as the new voltage regulator will have a trouble light wire and a voltage sensing wire. which allows me to monitor voltage where i want it to be monitored Edited by HOLLiiWOOD, May 21 2015, 10:53 PM.
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| t3ragtop | May 22 2015, 10:08 AM Post #10 |
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
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i really don't know why you would burn the time to re-invent the wheel when there's already a proven mod for higher output alternator replacement, but..... if you modify an existing alternator to get a higher output current you shorten it's life considerably. if you use an alternator with a specific higher rating from an oem application, the design will already have an acceptable service life. i have been using the delco-remy cs130 alternator mod for years. i am dealing with my first failure this very day after maybe 2 years from it's installation. without any fiddling about i was able to walk into an auto parts store and walk out with a replacement alternator for $77. i didn't have to wait a week while an electric shop rebuilt it or pay a bunch of money, either. still, it's fun to watch you do your thing. getting the bracketry built to provide the proper belt alignment is the hardest part. you pretty much have to have an engine out of the car and on the bench to do that with any ease.the best mods i have seen done for a dual alternator set had the second alternator mounted in place of the air conditioning compressor using the 4 rib drive belt for the a/c. also, it seems to me that those were on competitive car stereo machines and the alternators were used as 14 volt supplies for big amplifiers while the original alternators were designated to run the car electrics. have fun! i'm having a good time following your thread.
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| HOLLiiWOOD | May 22 2015, 06:52 PM Post #11 |
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my high output alt is rated for 200a. It is what i replaced my protege's stock altii with. i'll never get my $300 back for it, and this modifacation will make it universal~. so it should work in any car with the same mounting orientation. I'm hoping the 4 rib pulley on the HO will give me enough play to keep my belt properly aligned. I only have to notch the existing, top alternator bracket to make it fit easy. I can over tension the belt and barely get a bolt in the top, but if i cut a small notch in the bracket it will have the clearance to still work as a tensioner. I'm going to add a 4AWG ground from an alternator bolt and a 00SAE wire for the output. does anybody knoe what the deal is with the whole, " old GM alternator on the a/c bracket" thing? |
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| Bjetmech | May 22 2015, 06:55 PM Post #12 |
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Its a mod for a Suzuki Samurai. It just also works on our motors. |
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| t3ragtop | May 22 2015, 07:42 PM Post #13 |
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Turbo3 and Twincam Tweaker
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if you got 'em, smoke 'em. ![]() the samurais ran early g family engines with the only difference being a v type pulley set. the off road guys adapted their alternator upgrade thing to the newer suzuki lines so the flat belt version is also listed. you can buy the lower bracket, bolt, and pig tail wiring adapter as a diy kit or buy the whole deal with a belt and alternator. there's a specific model of the cs130 alternator that works on the mod and after my search today for a replacement i see how difficult it is to locate. it's specific to a certain range of chevy/ gm pickup trucks and diesel engines. it's a 4 wire alternator with the top ear 180 degrees opposite the bottom ear. i don't believe that anyone makes a kit for the a/c compressor mounted alternator. i think that evmetro did one. maybe he can chime in on this.
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getting the bracketry built to provide the proper belt alignment is the hardest part. you pretty much have to have an engine out of the car and on the bench to do that with any ease.
7:53 PM Jul 10