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Power washer accident - I got arrogant and stranded the car.
Topic Started: May 17 2015, 09:58 PM (1,276 Views)
supercrust
Corpse Pilot

The subject line says it all.

It starts perfect. It will rev up once, and then *only* will idle surge. You can't give it gas, it just makes the surge louder if you try. The car is not moveable.

I am about to head out and pull some parts, bring them home, clean them, and dry them.

I'm thinking maybe the TPS or ISC are the issue? I'm also going to blow out the map sensor and cap.

Gah, I knew better.
If it was in my driveway, I wouldn't have asked. I don't want to be Mr. Noob Q.Forum-Emergency. It would be dumb not to ask, though.

"Man whatever, i can get away with it just once". : / :smackface :doh
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supercrust
Corpse Pilot

I drove it about a block before it started this, BTW.
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Car Nut
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Try & blow things out like you said. If nothing else, if it will stay running, close the hood & let it run. It might just dry itself out after awhile. Hopefully nothing shorts out.
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supercrust
Corpse Pilot

Car Nut
May 17 2015, 10:11 PM
Try & blow things out like you said. If nothing else, if it will stay running, close the hood & let it run. It might just dry itself out after awhile. Hopefully nothing shorts out.
heh, hopefully nothing *already* shorted out, either.


Off to the car.
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supercrust
Corpse Pilot

<duplicate comment deleted>
Edited by supercrust, May 17 2015, 10:26 PM.
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GeoStalker
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"Chicks dig me and guys think I'm cool."

Did you powerwash your engine without first covering up and waterproofing the distributor completely? tsk tsk
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supercrust
Corpse Pilot

Yup.

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supercrust
Corpse Pilot

Three is greasy white stuff in the distributor cap that was not there a month ago.
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supercrust
Corpse Pilot

Hey! Guess what? I blew out and dried out my wallet and AAA card : P .

I still have three tows left. If I can't get it started tonight, I'll tow it tomorrow. I'm a night owl, so I have a few hours left of "daylight".
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Hanuman
"The Almighty Grounds Cleaner"

use compressed air to blow out the TPS. dont (remove or reposition it....dont throw up on it.)
remove distributor cap, blow out with compressed air and let dry.

your choice....prop hood open and install a box fan blowing on engine for a day or so..........
or take car for a drive once engine is good and hot leave running for an hour or two to bake everything dry.

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supercrust
Corpse Pilot

Hanuman
May 18 2015, 02:14 AM
use compressed air to blow out the TPS. dont (remove or reposition it....dont throw up on it.)
remove distributor cap, blow out with compressed air and let dry.

your choice....prop hood open and install a box fan blowing on engine for a day or so..........
or take car for a drive once engine is good and hot leave running for an hour or two to bake everything dry.

I just got in around 4 A.M.
Mission accomplished, and then some.

That was pretty much what I did. I had to use canned air (which is a less than stellar plan for a number of reasons), but by and large I got rid of more moisture than the canned air added.

I really wish I had a tiny narrow-stream pump sprayer with some isopropyl, as well.



Anyway, while I was mucking about trying not to wake whoever's houses I was working in front of, I started testing things with a meter. Turns out there's an open circuit in my TPS, which I had been suspecting, but hadn't tested yet. The plug and socket for it also seem a little dodgy and flimsy.

I got the car back to it's normal state of dysfunction (other than the fact that there was no idle surging tonight, which has me worried). I think the replacing the TPS is going to clean up some issues, so i am calling the boneyard tomorrow.

The car is safe for now. Good night, it's sunrise.






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idmetro
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Good to hear of another successful rescue!
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Car Nut
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:thumb
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myredvert
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myredvert

:hmm This makes the 3rd or 4th "power-washing drowned my TPS" event already this year, and it isn't even Summer yet... :O

There should be a single post, locked and pinned thread.

Title: "I'm thinking about power washing my engine. Should I direct the spray anywhere near components such as my TPS, distributor, or an open intake system while cleaning the engine?"
Post #1: No.

Components such as these should be cleaned carefully by hand or by using a non-volatile, rapidly evaporating spray cleaner in order to avoid excess water from entering. It has been shown that excessive amounts of water inside electrical/electronic components or the intake and combustion chambers may lead to undesirable driveability issues.

However, should you feel an uncontrollable urge to point a pressurized spray at them, you may want to consider first covering them with a ziplock bag, which should then be secured as tightly as practical with a suitable fastener such as a zip tie or heavy rubber band.

If you do cover them, you may also want to consider removing them before starting the engine.
Quote:
 
I started testing things with a meter. Turns out there's an open circuit in my TPS, which I had been suspecting, but hadn't tested yet.

I think the replacing the TPS is going to clean up some issues, so i am calling the boneyard tomorrow.
I wouldn't spend money on another TPS just yet without first verifying yours is correctly checked and adjusted (if necessary).

I'll go out on a limb here and venture a guess that you may not have used the appropriate TPS related FSM procedure to test it, partly because you described what you did as "I started testing things with a meter" as opposed "I the TPS check procedure in the FSM" or "I had a DTC 21 or 22, so I followed the applicable FSM diagnostic procedure," and also because before your power wash experience you weren't reporting any major driveability issues that are normally associated with a bad TPS, and you didn't say you currently have a DTC 21 or 22 set... ;)

If I am wrong about that, I do sincerely apologize.

If you haven't already located them, the Standard Emissions TPS check (with the resistance chart for various throttle position/feeler gauge/pin combinations) is on page 14. If necessary, the adjustment procedure begins on page 11. (link>>) FSM Section 6E2-C, Component Systems

If you do have a DTC 21 or 22, the diagnostic procedures are located in Section 6E2-A1 Engine Components/Wiring Diagrams/Diagnostic Charts (Standard Emissions).

Also, the 93 has the Standard Emissions system has an Idle Air Control (IAC) Valve. Upgraded Emissions systems beginning later in 94 have the Idle Speed Control (ISC) motor. :thumb
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supercrust
Corpse Pilot

myredvert
May 18 2015, 09:34 AM
:hmm This makes the 3rd or 4th "power-washing drowned my TPS" event already this year, and it isn't even Summer yet... :O

There should be a single post, locked and pinned thread.

Title: "I'm thinking about power washing my engine. Should I direct the spray anywhere near components such as my TPS, distributor, or an open intake system while cleaning the engine?"
Post #1: No.

Components such as these should be cleaned carefully by hand or by using a non-volatile, rapidly evaporating spray cleaner in order to avoid excess water from entering. It has been shown that excessive amounts of water inside electrical/electronic components or the intake and combustion chambers may lead to undesirable driveability issues.

However, should you feel an uncontrollable urge to point a pressurized spray at them, you may want to consider first covering them with a ziplock bag, which should then be secured as tightly as practical with a suitable fastener such as a zip tie or heavy rubber band.

If you do cover them, you may also want to consider removing them before starting the engine.
Quote:
 
I started testing things with a meter. Turns out there's an open circuit in my TPS, which I had been suspecting, but hadn't tested yet.

I think the replacing the TPS is going to clean up some issues, so i am calling the boneyard tomorrow.
I wouldn't spend money on another TPS just yet without first verifying yours is correctly checked and adjusted (if necessary).

I'll go out on a limb here and venture a guess that you may not have used the appropriate TPS related FSM procedure to test it, partly because you described what you did as "I started testing things with a meter" as opposed "I the TPS check procedure in the FSM" or "I had a DTC 21 or 22, so I followed the applicable FSM diagnostic procedure," and also because before your power wash experience you weren't reporting any major driveability issues that are normally associated with a bad TPS, and you didn't say you currently have a DTC 21 or 22 set... ;)

If I am wrong about that, I do sincerely apologize.

If you haven't already located them, the Standard Emissions TPS check (with the resistance chart for various throttle position/feeler gauge/pin combinations) is on page 14. If necessary, the adjustment procedure begins on page 11. (link>>) FSM Section 6E2-C, Component Systems

If you do have a DTC 21 or 22, the diagnostic procedures are located in Section 6E2-A1 Engine Components/Wiring Diagrams/Diagnostic Charts (Standard Emissions).

Also, the 93 has the Standard Emissions system has an Idle Air Control (IAC) Valve. Upgraded Emissions systems beginning later in 94 have the Idle Speed Control (ISC) motor. :thumb
I had no access to a computer, so I couldn't really look much up in the FSM last night. Sadly, the car was about three miles away from anywhere I could get a good internet connection.
My plan was to start digging through the FSm today if I couldn't get it last night with Haynes and my meter,

I'm still going to try that stuff out, but at both wide open position and fully closed position, TPS contacts A and D show infinite resistance (no continuity).

I have to get it home before I can try adjusting it because one the screws holding the TPS is stuck too tight to push too hard with the harbor freight driver I had handy (which is still stronger than the screw head).

There's either something under the TPS switch I need to see, or some other critical circuit not doing what it's supposed to on the throttle body side, or there's a physically broken connection. At least in my opinion. Granted, my opinion was totally wrong about power washing the car. However, I knew better (which is the stupid thing there).

If the position of a TPS in its adjustment range acts as a progressively increasing or decreasing variable resistance, I could see it causing trouble if it's positioned physically outside of it's adjustment range in such a way that its "wiper" (sic) has passed beyond the resistance surface. But this is speculation based on guesswork and intuition. I am not even sure that's what goes on in there; it is totally ignorant guesswork.

It's not the only problem going on with it. I have to determine whether the next problem was in the harness clip or not. I've got to clean the connections really really good, because they are *not* functioning right. There is are either poor/dirty connections, internally damaged wires, or terminal issues *inside* the tps. I can't get a tech-swab in the harness jacks, so I've got to buy some pipe-cleaners or.. something.
They need a light squeezing, too. Further, the jack is too loose in ts socket.

If one applies any pressure at all to the green wires where they enter the clip, the idle speed drops dramatically with one (1) cough. "*koff!", it says.

The engine light is also throwing 21's and 32's. I want to pull the MAP and blow it out better. And I want to get one from the junkyard and dismantle it.
The 32 wasn't throwing until I poked at the TPS for a while at the gas station I had at this point migrated the car to.

The only thing that has changed from two days ago is that last night the idle surging disappeared as soon as the car was running properly.


I've had high idling and idle surging since I got the car. I've been suspecting the TPS and clogged coolant lines for some time, but I hadn't had a chance/the inclination to get in there yet and test the TPS, or to flush the car (that was going to be yesterday afternoon).

Haynes is far from perfect, but it's what I have in the trunk : D And unfortunately, I only just now realized I could put the FSM on my phone as I was typing the previous sentence :hmm .

Anyway, I need to spend more time with the FSM, but I also have a hard time with the way it's written. I have some neurological stuff going on (not mental illness or stupidity), so I need to spend a few hours with it slowly getting used to it's flow and layout. It makes me visually confused right now. :x It's quite an annoying situation, but if I can figure out 1960's Italian electronic organs schematics, I can get this. Anyone want to trade a paper FSM for repairs on a Farfisa organ? I'm your guy. Organ circuitry and diagnosis makes a Metro harness look like a flashlight.


I am going out to the boneyard tomorrow one way or the other, and if I can talk them out of two TPS and and a pair of MAP sensors for under $25, they're coming home with me and getting swapped out.

I'm trying really hard not to get all defensive about the FSM thing. I already am pretty embarrassed about having power washed the car, and I know your advice is good. It may not be the only path to Rome, but I do respect that you have more physical experience with these particular situations than I do. If I get to the FSM procedure before I go to the junkyard, I'll do that. If I go to the junkyard first, I'll do that. It's a (pretty) 25 minute drive through the hills, and I want to go out there anyway to check out some vert parts ; )

With pride and hubris,

William

P.S.I will be driving the Previa. Any grade over 2% makes the Crimson Grenade very unhappy.

P.P.S. So much for dropping the Grenade off for that compression check this morning!





NOTE: I have been erroneously and repeatedly referring to my Metro as a 1994. It is a 1993.
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