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Something is broken; No Check Engine Light; before doing some wiring I was lazy and removed the +BAT
Topic Started: Jun 21 2015, 10:44 AM (1,197 Views)
HOLLiiWOOD
New Member
[ *  * ]
To save time, I removed the + terminal, with every intention of removing the - terminal and doing it properly, but after some swearing and 2 drill bits, I was done and ready to go get some dinner.

So now, after it arked out, I get no wide open throttle. or something???


when i'm low in RPM in 3rd and I go pasted 2/3~ on the throttle, it's like the timing goes??

like it wants to die, gets sputtery and wants me to go back to half throttle.

no back fires though.


I haven't hooked up the diag. fuse to see what's up, but i have no check engine lights.
I knoe someone with an odb-1 reader and i'll line that up after i do the diag. this afternoon

speaking of fuses, a 15A under the dash was blown, no idea what it is yet, no idea if it was always blown.
running a 10A in it right now, but it doesn't seem to have fixed the problem.

more to come
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freegeo
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Does the check engine come on with the key in the on position and go out once the car is started?
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HOLLiiWOOD
New Member
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yes, the light works

i was offended at your statement at first, but I DID skrew the pooch on this one, so the assumption that I am a couple sandwiches short of pic-nic basket would be sense able .

I am usually very good about these things.

and I am very mechanically inclined, I just never worried about what happens from the voltage spike in this situation, because i knew it was not good, and I shouldn't do it.

Oh haste; well buying a new ECU will probably be enough to not be so arrogant again . . . .
Edited by HOLLiiWOOD, Jun 21 2015, 12:49 PM.
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HOLLiiWOOD
New Member
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fuse was three down from the top, of course they are both ten now.

deduction says: it was tail fuse

according to the picture in this post: http://geometroforum.com/topic/4723310/1/
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HOLLiiWOOD
New Member
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diag. gives code 12

i then reset computer by removing ground and pressing brake.

started it up

diag. gave code 12

everything runs as normal.

new fuel filter two days ago, and i HAVE been going hard on the fuel system cleaners. . . (just finished a tank with 1/3 bottle of seefoam, and put a GumOut cleaner in this full tank. burned through 1/4 so far.)

air filter is OLD, and cold air filter is also old.

cold air it pretty well sheltered in the fender, so i don't think it gets too wet.


i can't think of the link between electrical short and fuel/air mixture

except injector or ECU



both things that are not worth fixing on this car.



fresh oil, MTF, and fuel filter two days ago and ran great before the ark.
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Hanuman
"The Almighty Grounds Cleaner"

HOLLiiWOOD
Jun 21 2015, 10:44 AM
To save time, I removed the + terminal, with every intention of removing the - terminal and doing it properly, but after some swearing and 2 drill bits, I was done and ready to go get some dinner.

So now, after it arked out, I get no wide open throttle. or something???


when i'm low in RPM in 3rd and I go pasted 2/3~ on the throttle, it's like the timing goes??

like it wants to die, gets sputtery and wants me to go back to half throttle.

no back fires though.


I haven't hooked up the diag. fuse to see what's up, but i have no check engine lights.
I knoe someone with an odb-1 reader and i'll line that up after i do the diag. this afternoon

speaking of fuses, a 15A under the dash was blown, no idea what it is yet, no idea if it was always blown.
running a 10A in it right now, but it doesn't seem to have fixed the problem.

more to come
what exactly were you doing?

you rremoved the negative battery terminal.......this disconected the car from the battery.
you used a drill for something.
you got a arc with the negative disconnected.

icant tellyou where to begin trouble shooting with out knowing more details.
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HOLLiiWOOD
New Member
[ *  * ]
I was doing some stereo wiring, a direct line from battery + to head unit, as well as a dedicated ground for head unit.

Was connected to factory wiring.

I also chopped all the factory stereo wiring as far back as I could, because this car's next owner will be the scrap yard.

_-------------------_------------------------------------------

Once I had the head unit pulled out and my plan of attack, I decided I should dis-conect the battery before snipping factory wires.

Because the positive terminal on my BAT has a marine adapter with wing but, and negatives are all bolted to the side post, I elected to just disconnect the positive wire because the socket set was 5ft away and I'm lazy.

I realized this was dumb, but did it anyways.

I in tented to do it properly when I was buttoning everything up.

I went back to wiring, and while drilling a hole for head unit ground I snapped two drill bits because of poor location choice.

Other than that everything went well

I removed the antenna wire and chassis speaker wires back as far as I could, and left the ground and 12v supply alone, along with anything else that was plugged into my head unit plug

(ACC trigger)

Frustrated and wanting to see fruits from my labour I did NOT properly reconnect the battery.


While the negatives were still attached to the battery I replaced the positive wire.

They was an ark, (I've seen bigger) but it was on quick pop and it made me feel like I had broken something, but I was hoping it was just a blown fuse.

Hoping for the best I took a test drive, started properly, idled fine.

It seemed like my IAC was working worse than normal. (I butchered a IAC repair I saw on this site, Too heavy a spring, it is only max and off, I will fix eventually.)

When driving, I want to say it floods when I go over half throttle.

Rpm goes up but then plateaus, almost like a governor. Second on a hill used to be able to accelerate real good, but now it gets boggy.

Low rpm in third used to diesel, but eventually, and smoothly, pick up speed (full throttle, maybe back off a third to get good a better fuel/air mixture).

Now the same situation in third, makes the rpm plateau, and eventually start to loose power and bog, then lurching almost like it wants to backfire something fierce. Almost stalls really....

Removing OLD inner air filter fixed what it should have fixed, but did nothing for this problem.

Could I be flooding when going full throttle because my fuel system is cleaner?

Or did I blow my ECU, and it is not doing the fuel/air mixture properly.


It feels like one component is damaged because everything else runs fine....
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HOLLiiWOOD
New Member
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Got it to back fire once, I was stabbing at the throttle with clutch in. At 30km/h in third it doesn't like full throttle, at 65km/h in third it will take full throttle
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HOLLiiWOOD
New Member
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I have no idea where to start

I'm going to check the resistance of the coil.

it seems to be a timing issue, like it doesn't advance the timing with the rpm.
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myredvert
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myredvert

If you don't use the Factory Service Manual (FSM) and perform procedures such as this correctly, you will not only get good data from which a proper diagnosis of any problems can be made, you are also putting yourself at much greater risk of frying the ECM - if it hasn't been already from the inadvertent short.

Given the circumstances, you should properly perform an OBD system check using the FSM instructions, and try not to get offended when someone asks you the correct first question in the proper diagnostic sequence in order to get data to help evaluate the problem. He made no judgment about what led to the current situation - we all have done dumb things. He was simply trying to help you dig out of whatever issue the incident may have caused.
Quote:
 
diag. gives code 12
i then reset computer by removing ground and pressing brake.
started it up
diag. gave code 12
First, that is not the procedure for resetting the computer. The brake has nothing to do with the correct procedure, and resetting the system after getting a DTC 12 serves no purpose. And you didn't say how you initiated the OBD diagnostic request (there are two ways).

Also, the engine is not started to check the diagnostic system.

Quote:
 
everything runs as normal.
I'm confused. Does everything run "as normal" or do you have driveability issues?

If you do have driveability issues, begin with the first step in any FSM diagnostic procedure - properly checking the OBD system and see what results you get, then we can help direct you to the proper FSM diagnostic procedure given the symptoms and the result of the OBD check.
Quote:
 
I have no idea where to start
That's quite easy actually, and doesn't involve having to blindly guess at things to check, and guess at how to properly check/test them.

Start with the FSM. The engineers who designed the systems also gave us diagnostic procedures that are better than anything we could come up with ourselves and will logically lead to identifying the problem and solution in a deliberate and efficient manner. They did what they did so we can get right down to the business of efficiently diagnosing instead of guessing at what a diagnostic procedure might look like throwing parts and improper tests at problems.

I hope your ECM survived the incident. Good luck! :cheers
Edited by myredvert, Jun 21 2015, 05:58 PM.
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freegeo
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HOLLiiWOOD
Jun 21 2015, 11:47 AM
yes, the light works

i was offended at your statement at first,
Was not trying to offend you in any way. When reading the heading it said no check engine light and I wasn't sure if you meant it doesn't light up when the key is turned on or that there was no codes stored. Glad to hear the computer seems to function properly.

Have you checked the timing or done a compression test to see what the internal condition is of the engine?
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HOLLiiWOOD
New Member
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I can't imagine the internals are great, so i am not going to do a compression test. I have the tools, but then i will want to fix it if i knoe it's bad.

a new head gasket is one thing, but new valves and rings is out of the question, I have rust rot in bad places, and i'm just not at the place where I decide to start throwing cash at this money pit.

if anything my problem feels like I am flooding it; too much throttle at low rpm causes less power and eventually starts to chug, like it wants to stall.

it runs fine if I am not mental with the throttle.

see i'm new to carburettors, and for all i knoe it is just running more proper with a clean fuel filter. it just seemed to develope after arking the positive.

This car is my daily driver, and I would love to block it up and fix all it's holes and faults, but I alway need to drive it to work tomorrow.

thank you for all your help, and I wasn't that offended, was just wearing a large amount of ego.

I was hoping someone would just tell me that something was broken, like it was a normal happening.

If it is something I have to diagnose, since I can still drive it (just not like an idiot), It will be dealt with later on.

in a month here i think i will have a chance to block this and fix the rust rot, get the wheel bearings done all round and then take it in for a tune up.

It's a toss up between spend $2000 on a new bucket of problems, or put $2000 into the metro
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freegeo
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If you have some spare time you might want to look through the FSM link below and see what it says about the type of symptoms you are experiencing. It is for a 94 but should give you a good idea of what to llok for. Just make sure you use the standard emission portion of the manual.

http://geometroforum.com/topic/5044844/1/#new
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Old Man


HOLLiiWOOD
Jun 21 2015, 12:44 PM
diag. gives code 12

i then reset computer by removing ground and pressing brake.

started it up

diag. gave code 12

Do you realize that a "code 12" is telling you that nothing is wrong?

The reason it is giving a code 12 (one flash, then two flashes) is that the only thing wrong is that someone left a fuse in the diagnostic slot. Pull the fuse out of the slot and it will not read code 12.

Read thru the following and look at the first pic where the diagnostic slot is circled.

Read the rest of it and you will know what fuse goes to what and what all the diagnostic codes are and how to read them.
http://geometroforum.com/topic/5015654/1/
and get a FSM and use the diagnostic procedures.
Edited by Old Man, Jun 21 2015, 11:24 PM.
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HOLLiiWOOD
New Member
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yes i knoe 12 means all ok

I'm leaning towards i'm just flooding it with too much throttle.

I have a factory service manual i want to buy for eBay, but i'm not sure about committing to this car.

I will have a read on the emissions and learn how the ECU works, I'm assuming, with a TPS, that the ECU changes fuel/air mixture based on throttle position; i just don't knoe how exactly.
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